Opinion: The route TDKR coulda/shoulda taken

Opinion: The route TDKR coulda/shoulda taken


It's a fairly simple complaint; It bothered me that Bruce retires and leaves Gotham. Nolan had always stayed true to the spirit of every character while translating them into his film universe.

Bruce was full of angst and Alfred was his Jiminy Cricket. Gordon was the only good cop trying to salvage a retched city. Gotham was a socialist society, having only the very rich or the very poor.

Joker was the absolute opposite of Batman, the chaos to his order. Ra's was a villain under the impression he was the hero.

...and so on.

Why change things up in the finale?

I'm fine with Talia not truly in love with Bruce; it works well in the trilogy. I'm fine with Bane not a hulking powerhouse, sort of. I loved the Lazarus Pit being what it was.

Making Bane Talia's love was nice.

But why did Bane appear so much older than Talia in the flashbacks? That was weird.

My main gripe was Blake and his real name; that and Wayne leaving Gotham. That would never happen.

So Blake's real name is Robin. RIDICULOUS!!!!

If they wanted to go the route of retirement ala The Dark Knight Returns, despite not being too old, it could've worked, with Wayne staying in Gotham, of course. Here's how...

Well, wait. 1st, John Blake's real name could have, neh, should have, been Jean (John, a nick name) Valley or my last on the list, what I really thought was going to happen.

To find the comic book identity of Valley, please look elsewhere. What you are about to read is the version I think could have been hypothosized in TDKRises.

No added material would emphasize this save, perhaps, one lone scene...

Jean-Paul Valley, a university graduate student of computer science in Gotham City, is the latest in a line of assassin-enforcers for "The Sacred Order of Saint Dumas".
Demonstrating a detective's intuition in tracking Bane's movements, he decides to reject his "birthright" and becomes an apprentice crime fighter alongside Batman.

What can be assumed after the completion of the trilogy is as follows...

Against Bruce Wayne's orders, Valley fights, wearing enhanced battle-armor 9we saw a glimpse of this armor when Wayne uses his knee brace).

His performance as Batman is influenced by his Azrael conditioning; he grows increasingly violent.

2nd, his name could have been Richard. "You shoud go by your real name, Richard." "Then people would call me Dick." Subtle and funny. Or she could have looked at the card ans simply asked "of the famous flying Graysons?" He just smiiles

Option 3. His real name could have been Jason or Tim.

John is a nickname for Jack, or vise versa. Tim's father, dead in the trilogy, was named Jack. Taking this name was an homage to his father.

Option 4, the other route I thought they were taking when she remarked that he should use his real name (Valley, being the other one)

I guessed that she would refer to him as Terry, as in Terry McGinnis. This is the one that made the most sense to me.

What follows is the cinematic interpretation.

An aging Batman, equipped with a high-tech Batsuit (in this case, the knee brace and other accessories) decides that his time as Batman is over.

The story flashes back to before Batman, when John/Terry was a child.

Terry returns home to discover that his father had been murdered, (place your nameless villain, or one you wished to see in the trilogy, here).

At the end of the movie, Blake should have snooped around the cave and discovered the Batman Beyond suit. Let's face it, he was good, but not Batman good, he needs the high powered suit.

Instead, Nolan relegates himself to haaving Blake's real name be Robin; and Bruce leaving Gotham. WHAT!?

I never wanted him to pass the cowl or quit, but the way the movie was shaping I was guessing either Valley or, the more preferred, in my case, Terry.

Again, I didn't want either, I was merely more comfortable with these 2, specifically Terry.

Oh, and I would've liked to see, but was fine without, Talia being pregnant at the end.
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Tainted87 - 7/22/2012, 12:45 PM
Robin John Blake is an amalgamation of the Robins.

All orphans.
Tim Drake figured out Batman's identity on his own.
Jason Todd was a hot-headed delinquent before Batman took him in.
Dick Grayson actually became a police officer in Bludhaven when he left to be Nightwing.


TDKR should have taken a bunch of different routes, and although I'm not happy with the resolution, I'm glad it is finally over and done with - and now DC/WB has the ability to make a Batman like the comics in the future years.
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 12:48 PM
Just finished an article where I analyze the film's faults and come up with ways to improve them. check it out here: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/VicSage/news/?a=64342
ager - 7/22/2012, 12:56 PM

how funny is that I checked yours out 1st and left a message alluding to my article. yours was great and i
encourage others to read it as well
ager - 7/22/2012, 12:57 PM

I didn't even catch the whole hot-headed reference but I caught the others.
Bane2099 - 7/22/2012, 1:16 PM
The one thing i think they missed out on that would've been awesome and true to her character in the comics was when Thalia said " goodbye, my friend " to Bane, they should've had her say " goodbye, my beloved ", as she would always refer to Bruce in the comics as " beloved ".
Tainted87 - 7/22/2012, 1:19 PM
^This, beloved.
TheRaven20 - 7/22/2012, 1:43 PM
@FIRG totally agree. It would be a huge missed opportunity if they don't make a spinoff and just quickly reboot.
VicSage - 7/22/2012, 1:45 PM
@ager: Yeah, that is pretty funny. DESTINY! Check out the article guys when you can @ http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/VicSage/news/?a=64342
TheRaven20 - 7/22/2012, 1:45 PM
I just don't see how Warner Bros. can reboot either. I mean look at all the backlash TASM received for being a reboot. Sure I loved it an accepted it, but that's because I thought it was better than the others and cause I hated Spider-man. The majority of people love Nolan's trilogy and it Warner Bros. was to announce a reboot anytime soon, I think the majority would be outraged. But that's just me and kinda not related to the thread so sorry haha.
LoudNoises - 7/22/2012, 1:46 PM
I hope WB doesn't continue this series with Robin. Not because I don't think it couldn't be good or that it wouldn't work, but I like how they left it. They left you with this overwhelming amount of possibilities about where it could go. It wrapped up with this vibe of discovery and wonder and I think that was a good way to leave it. Let the next director do his own thing with Batman and leave this series alone.
Tainted87 - 7/22/2012, 3:34 PM
"Beloved" would have been lamp-shading their relationship - meaning their intimacy really doesn't mean anything, and that he is just a mark to her. Which is pretty much what the movie gave us.

But it wasn't the Talia voiced by Stana Katic or Helen Slater, so whatever.
TheRaven20 - 7/22/2012, 3:53 PM
"Cause I hated Spider-man 3"**
haha oops
ager - 7/22/2012, 5:09 PM

but the point being i didn't like the "my name is Robin" gimmick
ager - 7/22/2012, 5:09 PM

I think it's done. leave it be. it was goo/great and in 6 or 7 years make a new one
ager - 7/22/2012, 5:11 PM

the next series/trilogy can go in a completely different direction if they start with Strange and the Monster Men. Instead of grounding it in realism go the opposite way to differentiate.
ager - 7/22/2012, 5:12 PM

like they said, he was in love. she just used him
ager - 7/22/2012, 5:15 PM
"But why did Bane appear so much older than Talia in the flashbacks? That was weird."

HMMMM, to answer my own question, he could have been a huge 16 year old and she, 10. So it actually works
ager - 7/22/2012, 6:17 PM
Also would've been cool if, going against the yellow/black Gotham Rogues was the Bludhaven Nightwings
IgnurRant - 7/23/2012, 4:52 AM
Bruce would never leave Gotham in the comics because DC needs to sell comics. Several elsewhere and outside continuity titles have shown Bruce retiring. If Bruce truly ever got over his pain he would retire because his mssion was not so much saving people but to punish criminals.
joekerr93 - 7/24/2012, 12:07 AM

Also, I know it's been said but I'll say it again

Robin John Blake is an amalgamation of Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and Tim Drake.

He goes by John so he doesn't get made fun of for having a girl's name. Nolan couldn't call him Jason, Dick, or Tim because that would A) Rule out the other two identities that are a part of his character and B) Be totally lost on the majority of the audience. They'd walk out going why is he called Dick? Then they'd find out and think that John Blake was Dick Grayson....

Best solution is Robin John Blake which as grown on me a lot more since I've last seen the movie
AC1 - 7/24/2012, 4:51 PM
The Robin name drop is forced, but it does what it intended - he's quite clearly an amalgam of Dick and Tim, and maybe even Jason to an extent. Tim is the main influence. Tim managed to deduce Batman's identity as Bruce Wayne quite easily due to his very intuitive detective skills.
The influence from Dick comes from the fact that he's Batman's first real 'partner', and I guess because he's a cop, and Dick was a Bludhaven cop later in the comics.
The fact that he's an orphan relates to all three Robins, while his 'hot-headedness' seems to allude to Jason, while his early use of weapons alludes to Jason's later identity as Red Hood.

Finally, his name is full of Robin references. ROBIN JOHN BLAKE. ROBIN - the name shared by all three of Batman's main sidekicks. JOHN - Comes from Richard JOHN Grayson, and also from two Robins' fathers - JOHN Grayson and Jack (Jack being an alternative name for JOHN) Drake. Also, John shares an initial with Jason. BLAKE rhymes with Drake.

While the idea of spin offs seems interesting, I'd rather they just leave it alone and reboot it in a few years, maybe in the build-up to a Justice League film. The Dark Knight Rises ended with a hopeful optimism that completely contradicted the entire series, it showed that Bruce's job was done. It also ended with a realm of possibilities ready to explore, but that ambiguity helps to end the story perfectly, because it shows that, as Bruce had always intended, Batman was just a symbol, a tool that could be utilised by anyone who needed it. This trilogy was about Bruce Wayne, so as appealing as a John Black spin-off might be, it would also serve to dilute Bruce's story.

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