EDITORIAL: The Problem with Captain America

EDITORIAL: The Problem with Captain America

We can do better with America's hero..

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By johnblake - 11/22/2012
I thought Captain america and the Avengers were great movies. But the portrayal could have been loads better. While Chris evans was a decent steve rogers he never really felt like Captain America. It just doesnt strike me that hes as strong willed and imposing as he could be.

The main problem with Cap in these films are,

- He is WAY to small to be captain america. I mean look how small Cap was in the Avengers he ways nothing like this:

Captain America in the MCU is about the Size of Spidey. What kind of stuff is this. how can i believe he can take on the likes of Hulk, and Thor like in the comics. In the Next film Cap need to be bigger point blank. A golden age size Cap just doesnt right against much more imposing heroes like Ironman.

- Too little time as Captain america. We see little of Captain America in these films. I get no sense of patriotism in the Character or a strong Leadership quality. I think this is because Even tough first Avenger was good, they montaged through two years of "Captain America" activities and adventure. If they had only broken First Avenger into two films we might have Finally seen him be the Strong leader he is like in the final scene in avengers.

- Very little chracter development. I mean anyone Who saw both Captain America and Avengers couldnt really connect with Cap as they could have with Tony stark, Thor, and even the Hulk. I mean agent coulson had more character Development than Cap. All we know about cap is that hes a kid from brooklyn, has super powers and used to be weak, and fought in world war two. thats it. You never really feel like, you do when Thor hits the screen. You know hes a God, he used to be sort of a dick, and he changed his ways. Captain america, just a nerd with super powers.

- and lastly, We need to know whats so great about a guy with a shield. I mean really most super grunts in the Marvel U are as strong as captain america so why do i want to watch a film with him in it. It is because he is great at what he does and its never Really seen in the movies. I mean if were assuming that he is as strong as 616 captain america he needs to be belivable that he could punch mark ruffalos Hulk in the face and send him crashing into a building.



You cant really see that realistically. why did they have him throw his shield and Thor "bring the hammer down." They should have had him Throw both of them around and make you belive that in a battle against Chitauri and loki this is the Guy I wana be taking orders from.


I dont think it was the actors fault but the writers. I could see for errors in Avengers trying to balance everything but In first avenger they should have just slowed down and make a movie and not an Avengers one shot prequel. I enjoyed these movies cause it was Cap but, come on hes Americas hero. Do better in Winter Solider.
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Kalel219 - 11/23/2012, 12:02 AM
" I mean if were assuming that he is as strong as 616 captain america he needs to be belivable that he could punch mark ruffalos Hulk in the face and send him crashing into a building"

Since when could cap punch Hulk through a building??

Also, the image of cap you posted as an example of how "big" he should look is just not possible...
johnblake - 11/23/2012, 12:53 AM
im pretty sure if he can swing with Thanos, Rhino, thor, beat Namor who has choked out the hulk, he can punch hulk through a building.

its totally possible. there are plenty of guys i see at the gym that size or bigger. chris evans may be that size in real life but we need to see it in on screen. Cgi is an option. the magic of movie making is absolute victory. Can be done
Kalel219 - 11/23/2012, 2:03 AM
Ok, serious question and I'm not trying to be mean but have you ever read a Captain America comic before ? :/

Cap can't beat Thanos in a straight up fight on his best day...

Yes, it's possible to get to that size but it wouldn't work in a movie, it would look completely stupid. How could you have him looking like that while maintaining his speed and all his other skills?
Spideyguy94 - 11/23/2012, 2:45 AM
Believe me you are in the minority of people who think cap wasn't portrayed well in CA:TFA and The Avengers. Captain America cannot punch hulk through a building, spider-man can't even do that and spider-man is stronger than cap. Cap beats people through strategy and observation of his oppenets fighting styles, almost like a boxer, that's why in civil war him and spidey fought to a tie.
DeanVanHalen - 11/23/2012, 3:03 AM
Seems like this was written by a twelve year old
Spideyguy94 - 11/23/2012, 3:12 AM
@DeanVanHalen I agree
Happy11 - 11/23/2012, 4:24 AM
I understand where you are coming from in terms of character development as I couldn't relate to him as being a great leader but his size is fine it's the suit and helmet that needs developed properly as it looked shocking in the Avengers.
CorndogBurglar - 11/23/2012, 4:32 AM
No way in hell can Cap punch Hulk through a building. He cant hang with almost any of those people. Iron Man kicked the ever loving shit out of Cap in Civil War. It wasnt even close.

Thanos, thor, hulk...the best Cap can hope for is to evade them, or slow them down in a fight, but nothing he can do by himself would really cause any of them any pain or damage.

Like someone else said, im not trying to be a dick, but you need to read some Cap comics.

Cap really doesnt have any super powers. His strength, speed, agility, and stamina are all raised to the peak performance of a normal person.
BlindLemonShemp - 11/23/2012, 5:23 AM
"A Noble Spirit Embiggens the Smallest Man" - Jebediah Springfield
BlindLemonShemp - 11/23/2012, 5:38 AM
"A Heavy Woman Enshrinkens My Britches" - Gusto
wearethewalkingdead9 - 11/23/2012, 5:41 AM
the only problem with captain america TFA was that once he finally became captain america all the fights were cheesy montages. hardly any action.
blackster - 11/23/2012, 5:45 AM
i think this guy is confusing captain america with superman...
TheFirstAvenger97 - 11/23/2012, 7:03 AM
I'm with teabag.
HulkinOut - 11/23/2012, 7:31 AM
Not a fan of caps portrayal. Not cause of Evans, the writers didn't make him interesting enough, everything about him was boring, from fight style to his appearance. I would of liked a buffer cap with a more badass attitude.
Preston - 11/23/2012, 7:51 AM
@John Blake

Captain America
Cap

HULK
hulk

You might want to look on this site for your statistics:
CLICK HERE: MARVEL Comic Database

CA:TFA and Batman: Begins --- are both ORIGIN movies. It wasn't 'till The Dark Knight that we saw BATMAN in all his glory. So, you make a good point that Cap could have been better fleshed out if he had a second outing; however, he shouldn't be played by someone like Tyler Mane or ended up being disappointing in Avengers. I think that the CAP movie had a ton of heart:



I think the movie showed us that CAP is a role model.
Hawksblueyes - 11/23/2012, 8:54 AM
Even taking his accent into account...teabag summed this up about as eloquently as anybody could.
CoolantTech - 11/23/2012, 8:58 AM
While its true they didn't use Cap to his fullest potential, I can't agree with you on any of your other points, you should know by now the actors would never be as big as their comicbook counterparts in these movies, and im fine with that it just makes more sense.

I think the real question is how they made a 5'9 RDJ (in the Ironman suit) taller than a 6'4 Hemsworth in the movie... com'on, the Ironman suit can't stretch your body
Preston - 11/23/2012, 9:15 AM
@Hawksblueyes
You have always been one of the most rational individuals on this site. Before this site went into the dark-ages, brought on by the influx of Nolanites. You wrote some of the BEST articles that I had ever read on this site. The way you compared the Burton universe to the Nolan universe was flawless.

I think that your IQ is a bit too high for some of the people on this site to understand.

So, you should stick around more, your contributions were some of the BEST.

@Corndog

He is another rational individual that beats me to the punchline many times; however, he doesn't show up all that often anymore.


@Tea

I'm glad you weren’t banned. By, the way I agree with you on 'Rises.'

'trudy
Nice to see you back.

Now, if we could just get DDD back to doing fancasts.
johnblake - 11/23/2012, 9:27 AM
Hold on now i never said that i didnt like Cap in those movies, i said they could have done him way better and those are ways they could have done it. Now as some one who reads comics can all say that Captain america has done some pretty unbelivable things. I see a lot of people say that Cap cant punch Hulk through a building. While that is true based on his stats, explain to me how he should be able to take a punch from the hulk. He shouldnt, doesnt make how strong a human is, even the strongest olympic wrestler or boxer couldnt eat slap from the hulk let a lone an enraged barrage. i dont care has strong or fast or tactical you are. thats like putting Anderson Silva in the ring with a Rhino. Hed die in 10 seconds. But for the sake of story telling i dont think anyone here wouldnt think that would be awesome if cap punched hulk. He did fight loki, whos 10 times stronger than him, and took punches and kicks.

HalloweenJack- grow up dude, insulting online is the stuff of 12 year olds.

Tea Bag- Yea i think batman and punisher were the right size. thor wasnt and should have been larger. But he was more like ultimate thor though so i let that go. Im a big fan of Captain america, so im sure you can say that Captain America although a good movie felt more like a set up for the Avengers and not an original movie like Ironman1. they straight blasted through the story. shouldve seen more villans, more ww2, i loved the fan nods, but it felt like something was missing.

Splenda- Ultimate cap rocks what you talkin about.

Coolant Tek- no it cant stretch your body but if you look in the comics, and on the film the iron man suit always makes it wearers taller. So thats not really an issue




SageMode - 11/23/2012, 10:23 AM
This article is just wow................

When has Captain America ever become strong enough to punch Hulk through a building? I mean, he's incapacitated the Hulk and a couple of occasions but not right beat him into a pulp.

But given the whole vibe of this article, it's clear that you don't know enough about Captain America to make a well though out article about him from the comics.
johnblake - 11/23/2012, 10:26 AM
Tell me how cap insipried the avengers himself.
johnblake - 11/23/2012, 10:43 AM
that was @cipher and im talking about in the movies.

@ teabag- but your more than welcome to tell me. stick to the movie universe. and no coulson card thing.
johnblake - 11/23/2012, 11:00 AM
All good points.
but they do need to improve with winter soilder though. What was lacking in First Avenger, needs to be in winter soilder. I hope winter soilder isnt another set up for avengers 2.
AC1 - 11/23/2012, 11:07 AM
Sorry, but clearly you don't understand what makes Cap special. It's not his powers, because he doesn't really have any (he's slightly above human potential, nothing special in superhero world). Cap can't punch Hulk through a wall, or go toe to toe with Thor.

Cap is a super soldier. SOLDIER. It's not about powers or brute strength. He's a tactician. He uses strategy to defeat his opponents against the odds.

The best part of the Captain America movie was before he became Captain America. It allowed you to see why he would be perfect for that procedure. He's an inherently good person, and he's determined (he tries like 20 times to enlist in the army by different means, not to 'kill Nazis' but because he 'doesn't like bullies'. That speaks volumes.)

And as for Chris Evans' size and the picture of comic Cap you posted... I don't think Arnold Schwarzenneger ever got to that size, how would Evans do it? It looks so unrealistic, it's completely beyond belief.

Cap is by no means the strongest Avenger in terms of power, whether it's comics or movies or cartoons. In fact, Cap is probably one of the weaker Avengers. But it's his determination, his authority, his good nature... those are the leadership-qualities that Cap has in all iterations.

To moan about the actor not beefing up to the size of a house is silly.
CoolantTech - 11/23/2012, 11:48 AM
@JohnBlake Yeah.. but not that much taller you moron, what does Tony have? 8 inch stilts in his boots?
CorndogBurglar - 11/23/2012, 12:50 PM
@ Preston

Thanks for the good words, man! Its hard to get on as much as usual between work and my 3 year old and wife. But I try to get on as much as possible.

There seems to be a lot of idiots and ignorance running rampant around here too. I never understood why someone would write articles about characters they don't know about. They're setting themselves up for people to trash them.

But whatever...
Hawksblueyes - 11/23/2012, 4:17 PM
Preston: WOW! All I can say is thanks for the more than kind words. Also...I haven't been pushed away by the idiots here (there have always been more than enough to go around.) I have simply been waaayyyy too busy to do anything more than browse the headlines most of the time.

Hopefully I can find the time to start contributing again after the holidays. I miss it very much. I still love this site.

tea: When is your mouth not full of some hairy substance or another? Hope all is well in your world bud. ;P
GuardianDevil - 11/23/2012, 5:15 PM
I think Evans did a great job as Captain America/Steve Rogers, granted he could have been a tad bigger, but that's not really an issue, and no Cap can't push Hulk through a wall, I mean come on guys Thor had a REAL hard time bringing down Hulk in the comics, my biggest problem was this his costume in the Cap movie looked fine, but in Avengers when he got a new one, it looked like a plastic toy, but Thor was more of a disgrace than Cap (Evans was great) but they made Thor look weak and pathetic, in the comics Thor was one of THE ONLY heroes physically capable of taking down the Hulk, and they made him look weak, Hemsworth seemed tiny compared to comic book Thor, I wouldn't have cast him as Thor, but Evans did a 90% good job.
CaptainAmerica31 - 11/23/2012, 6:45 PM
Chris Evans sucks ass as CAP and I agree on the character part. Most people ragging on you are mad because you're pointing out flaws in their flaw filled movie.captain America was garbage as was Thor, same with IM2 and the avengers. I cringed so many times watching the avengers for a second time, it was horribly acted and was cheesy as [frick].
wallhead - 11/23/2012, 7:44 PM
punching hulk crashing through a building? throwing thor around? lol. im surprised you didnt like that coulson wasnt web-swinging through new york.
Kalel219 - 11/23/2012, 7:46 PM
@Spidey31

I replaced every movie you mentioned with "The Amazing Spider-Man" and laughed my ass off, thanks!
TheFirstAvenger97 - 11/23/2012, 8:46 PM
Spidey31 really?
Hawksblueyes - 11/24/2012, 4:26 AM
tea: Work is work. Busy as all get out but no big bucks yet. I do, however, have a nice little box I am currently installing the arm shackles and leg chains in for your stay. That is, once I finally get you here. Once I get the sound dampeners in, it'll be all set.;O

THAT'S what you get for not liking condoms my friend, a lifetime of working for other people. :)

Deadpoolwithcomicsans - 11/24/2012, 8:31 AM
Grammar and spelling or GTFO!
Hawksblueyes - 11/24/2012, 11:38 AM
tea: What are friends for?
zachman2013 - 11/24/2012, 12:33 PM
Disagreed.
TheFirstAvenger97 - 11/24/2012, 1:23 PM
Isn't that the Ultimates? In the Ultimates he has superpowers.
Kalel219 - 11/24/2012, 2:38 PM
"I mean if were assuming that he is as strong as 616 captain america"

These are your words. You don't prove your point by posting an image of ULTIMATE Captain America, punching Hulk in the face, kicking him in the balls, giving him a whack with the shield and then tripping him up.

Hulk barely moves, nor does he go crashing through a building.

This is an awful article, it shows no understanding of the character at all.

1. The size of Cap is fine, it's believeable while showing he has amazing agility, therefore being presented as "The perfect human". You wrote that Iron Man is an imposing hero, well during the avengers we have Cap telling Stark to go put on the suit and that'll go a few rounds. Iron Man doesn't seem so "imposing" if by your logic, you have "the small guy" ordering him to come at him with everything he's got.

2. The interesting thing about Steve Rogers is he's Captain America in a way BEFORE he gets the suit. Ask anyone to tell you what makes Captain America who he is and they will say it's his spirit, his will to never give up,etc. In saying that, we get 3 scenes that come to mind straight away that reflect this

1. The scene with the bully in the ally, when even while taking a beating he won't stay down.
2. Him constantly trying to join the army even after he is denied.
3. Him training with the other soldiers, while visually struggling.

"If they had only broken First Avenger into two films we might have Finally seen him be the Strong leader he is like in the final scene in avengers."

Cap is a strong leader when he HAS TO BE. He's perfectly capable of letting someone else (Iron Man) take charge if he thinks they can get the job done just as well. In CA:TFA, for the most part he sees himself as a one of the guys, just a soldier, so why would he push for the leader role?

In The Avengers, it's Iron Man who says it's now up to him and instantly, what do you get? Captain America leading them.

3. " I mean agent coulson had more character Development than Cap."
Again, this is foolish. Cap has more character development then possibly anyone else in the MCU. We see him go from a small frail guy to a near superhuman leader in WW2 then to a superhuman "leader when he has to be", uncomfortable and alone in a new time.

In CA:TFA, we see him get joy out of people looking up to him or enjoying his adventures (The cinema) We see him have a round with all his friends (At the bar with the HCs) and we see him in love (All scenes with Peggy). We see him as a person, with a life and emotions.

In The Avengers, we see the total opposite of that. He's alone, uncomfortable and until that moment when he puts on the suit, almost not even the same guy because his experiences have changed him, he as a character is adepting.

Hell I could even throw in the little nods to the fans such as showing us he likes to draw to express himself (The monkey in the suit), but I won't.

"All we know about cap is that hes a kid from brooklyn, has super powers and used to be weak, and fought in world war two. thats it."

Maybe if you paid more attention to him in the movies, you'd learn more?

4. "I mean really most super grunts in the Marvel U are as strong as captain america so why do i want to watch a film with him in it"

Because not one of those grunts could make you sit up and listen, when Cap confronts Loki for the first time. Not one of those "grunts" could have that sudden change in vocal strength, that more confident posture, that calm vibe about him. As soon as he steps in, the crowd who seconds before were at Loki's mercy begin to look up and look to him as a hero.

5. " Do better in Winter Solider."

Do better in writing articles on something you have some level of understanding about.
alw - 11/24/2012, 2:57 PM
Agree that Cap vs Hulk or Thor would end in a Cap bloodbath,but it would be good to see Cap in a proper fight in the movies that shows his peak human abilities.His fight scenes up to now have been far too short,his 'feats' up to know like throwing a Hydra goon 15 ft in the air over a tank and holding a motorbike with three dancers above his head are slightly exaggerated but are there to show the general movie goers he,s more than a soldier in a star spangled suit but someone who is far stronger than the average human.a good short scene in Avengers 2 would have Cap a international media hero doing a televised charity Olympic style event and him wiping the floor bigstyle with every Olympic competitor just to showcase his abilities and renewed popularity
FOOM - 11/24/2012, 4:07 PM
I agree. This article is a disgrace.
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