EDITORIAL: 8 Changes Or Ideas I Didn't Like With THE DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY

LEVITIKUZ talks about 8 changes or idea he didn't like about The Dark Knight Trilogy. Some have to do with stuff people has said while most I haven't really seen anybody say which makes no sense. Click to check it out.

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By LEVITIKUZ - 12/22/2012


Now I loved The Dark Knight Trilogy as a whole. Don’t have too many problems with it but there are some things I disliked and that should have been different. Overall each film is great in it’s own since but there are still some problems I here they are.


1. Gotham To Feel More Like Gotham In THE DARK KNIGHT & THE DARK KNIGHT RISES


My only problem with The Dark Knight and one problem I had with The Dark Knight Rises was that Gotham City didn’t feel like Gotham. I loved the Gotham in Batman Begins but I don’t know why Nolan left that and never went back. I feel like Nolan was more focused on going into an epic setting that he was forgetting where he started. One problem I had was I often asked myself “What happened to the Narrows?” In the end of Batman Begins, Gordon told Batman that the Narrows were lost and then Batman said we will bring back Gotham. We never know how the Narrows were saved or it was never brought back.

2. For Batman & Gordon's Plan To Backfire


Batman and Gordon’s plan was for people to stand up to crime and injustice because of the death to Harvey Dent. That happened but I think it would have better to have that backfire. The citizens took back their city after Harvey’s death but I would have preferred to see the citizens scarred. Dent was a light of hope to stop crime in Gotham and he was killed. I think it would have been better if people started to fear criminals now that not only Harvey is dead, but the Batman is a criminal. It would be an interesting twist.

3. Take Out The Harvey Dent Act


I never understood this Dent Act. It gave the police more power against criminals but it also took out basic laws like due process which is protected by the constitution. You can’t have this Act even exist because it is unconstitutional. It’s that simple I mean it just doesn’t make sense. For a film to be realistic, you introduce an Act that can never happen.

4. A Crime Lord In THE DARK KNIGHT RISES


In Batman Begins we had Falcone, in The Dark Knight we had Sal Maroni, but in The Dark Knight Rises we didn’t have a crime lord. This could be because of the Dent Act but at the same time there should have been a crime lord. The 2 best opinions to chose are the Penguin or Alberto Falcone. Both of these men were rumored to be in The Dark Knight Rises. Either one would be good. Alberto Falcone would be a good chose to tie the first film and the third in the return of the Falcone family to power in the Gotham underworld. Penguin would be good too.

5. Catwoman To Be Related To Falcone


Having Catwoman be related to Falcone would be an interesting twist. In the comics, it was confirmed via The Long Halloween that Falcone was Catwoman’s father. I would just be an interesting twist with how Bruce and Falcone butted heads in Begins that Catwoman is this man’s daughter.

6. No League Of Shadows In THE DARK KNIGHT RISES


My problem with the League of Shadows in The Dark Knight Rises was that, we already had this plan in Batman Begins. If I had to compare to something it would be like how there was a Death Star in Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and then in Return of the Jedi it’s back. I mean you did this crap already so why bring it back, I just don’t get it. Think of something else.

7. Shorter Period Of Retirement With Batman


He traveled the world of 7 years and then was only Batman for a year, maybe two and then he retired for 8 years as Batman. It doesn’t make sense. If you had Batman & Gordon’s plan to backfire, Batman may have been still be out there. I would be alright with 3 years retirement. 4 tops but 8?

8. Barbara Gordon To Become Batgirl Or Dick Grayson To Become Robin/Nightwing


The one thing I didn’t like with Christopher Nolan’s direction is he made it seem like it was so hard having Robin in a movie. I’m alright with John Blake but I want a real Robin. Hell Batgirl could work. If Batman Begins was insirpated by Year One, and The Dark Knight used The Long Halloween for inspiration then The Dark Knight Rises should have been more like Dark Victory then The Dark Knight Returns. Hell it was the way The Dark Knight ended, using Dark Victory would be a perfect set up. In Dark Victory, both Batman and Gordon don’t talk a lot after what happened to Harvey Dent and the Holiday Killer. Nolan always had nods to Begins in Rises, but one nod using Robin would be how Robin is dealing with the pain. Dick’s parents died and he is in the same place that Bruce was and Bruce could see that in him. It’s not that hard to write. For Batgirl (if we’re using the 8 year time span), we could have Gordon’s wife and son die in a car crash leaving him with just Barbara. We could say Barbara was 8 in The Dark Knight which now makes her 16. That night with Harvey Dent where Batman saved her family, she saw inspiration in Batman and wanted to become just like him, I mean this shit writes itself.

So there you have it. Just 8 ideas and changes I would make. What do you think? Comment below. Peace.
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ravennpilot - 12/22/2012, 1:09 PM
I cant speak for what they wanted to accomplish with these films but I might be able to drop some ideas.

As far as Batman seems to have retired because the Dent Act allowed for it. Bruce did what he had to do to clean up the crime in his city. And he had taken a beating by everyone for the most part.

As far as that act being illegal, it was probably passed as justified in a time of "war." Many laws get their start when people are scared, laws that wouldn't normally pass.

I think the league was there as a way to come full circle and end Bruce's story. His Batman kicked off with them and the writers decided it should end with them.

The only real complaint I have about these films is that it doesn't go into some more of Batman's rouges gallery. I wish we heard Gordan talking about some woman who murder by poisoning men. Maybe some bird man mobster.
tobeyoungagain - 12/22/2012, 1:12 PM
WHEN WILL IT END!!!
Spideyguy94 - 12/22/2012, 1:35 PM
Can I just ask why do you write your article teasers in the 3rd person? Not insulting you, just wondering.
Spideyguy94 - 12/22/2012, 1:40 PM
All that aside, The dent act for me just felt like a contrivance to explain why batman wouldn't go out and fight crime for 8 years.
Spideyguy94 - 12/22/2012, 1:48 PM
It's never been confirmed that selina kyle is carmine falcone's daughter in the long halloween. It was hinted at at the very end, but never outright confirmed. It was played around with in its sequel dark victory but she finds no definitive proof.
Spideyguy94 - 12/22/2012, 2:08 PM
@LEVITIKUZ fair enough man, I can get behind that. I myself have only written 4 articles, and looking back my first ever one is awful, but I'm still proud of it because I put my heart and soul in to it.

I never knew that, think I'm going to play Arkham city again.
ravennpilot - 12/22/2012, 2:17 PM
Its been said that Bruce would stop being batman when the city was safe. With dent act it was. This also shows that Bruce is not the fighting man he once was.
AC1 - 12/22/2012, 2:37 PM
To clarify, Arkham Asylum and Arkham City aren't in continuity with the comics, so while Falcone IS Selina's dad in the games, it doesn't mean he is in the comics.

But yeah, good article LEVI, agree with most of the stuff here. TDK is my favourite Batman film but I was always disappointed by how Gotham never felt like Gotham, especially when the city was done so well in Begins.

As for Gordon and Batman's plan, I think that would've been a good way to end the series. The series really could've just been a two-parter, because TDK ended very well, with that bittersweet ending of Batman 'becoming the villain' in order to accomplish his mission. One of my main complaints about TDKR is that it actually undoes every ending plot point from TDK in order to progress the story (Batman's sacrifice, Alfred burning Rachel's letter, etc) when it didn't need to.

The Harvey Dent Act was pretty stupid, but even worse was 'Harvey Dent Day', I remember sitting in the cinema thinking "What the [frick] are they doing?" when I heard that. Such a cheesy moment in the film, and it does very little for the plot.

I don't think a crime-lord would've helped the film, it may have further complicated it. Wouldn't mind a small mob presence, but they'd have to be severely underwhelming compared to the first two film, to show the effect Batman's sacrifice had in TDK.

Would've been good to relate Catwoman to Falcone, but not necessary.

I actually think the League of Shadows was a good thing to bring back, the bad thing was bringing Talia in (or rather, how they included Talia) and the plan. The nuclear bomb was such a lazy plot device, instead Bane could've caused an uprising in Gotham that led to riots, and by extension even tied in to TDK and Joker's prophecy that 'when the chips are down, these civilized people... they'll eat each other'.

Batman definitely shouldn't have been retired for 8 years, I think you're 100% right about that. In fact, I'm not sure he should've retired at all. Bane should've just appeared in Gotham right after the events of TDK, especially when you consider that in TDKR Bruce is forced to stop being Batman TWICE (once in his retirement at the beginning, and again when his back is broken).

Not sure Batman should've had a full-on sidekick, especially in this film. This one was all about ending Bruce Wayne's story, and one of the few things I think they did right in this film was how they used 'John Blake', especially at the end hinting that he'd become Batman, as it ties in better with this trilogy and Bruce's notion that 'Batman's just a symbol' through which people can do good deeds and protect the innocent in Gotham.
TheFirstAvenger97 - 12/22/2012, 2:53 PM
Good read, LEVI.
Preston - 12/22/2012, 3:06 PM
As a DIEHARD Batman fan, my biggest pet peeve is with the depiction of the titular character; he was BATMAN in name only.

As a comic adaptation of The BATMAN, the Nolanverse fails. Here are 10 reason by ANGRYMAN:






As a film, I'll see your 8 mistakes and I'll raise you 20 written by Simon Gallagher (most are mentioned to nausea on this site):



Click Here for the full article:The Dark Knight Rises: 20 Mistakes Nolan Should Have Avoided

1). The Editing
2). Including Juno Temple’s Jen
3). Selina Kyle’s Back-Story (kind of like your number 5)
4). Blake Knowing Bruce Wayne’s Secret
5). Wayne Manor’s Security
6). Casting Matthew Modine
7). Bane Knew About Applied Sciences
8). The Absence of Scarecrow (in the destruction of GOTHAM)
9). There’s No Joker Reference
10). Batman’s Speedy Regeneration
11). Batman’s Return To Gotham
12). The Combat Choreography
13). No Relationship Development Between Wayne & Miranda Tate
14). The Clash of Principle & Spectacle
15). Where Were The 8 Million?
16). Bane’s Death
"Nolan seems to have been more concerned with deconstructing the Batman character even that is undermined, and we are ultimately lead to believe that Batman’s methods aren’t right, hammering the final nail into the character’s coffin. By the end of the third film, everything that made Bruce Wayne Batman – his history, his sense of duty, his emotional removal and his methods – have been destroyed or “fixed”, and he appears to be unwelcome in his own film."
17). The “Robin” Revelation
18). Not Killing Batman
"Nolan did something a lot worse than killing Batman. He deconstructed the character, and turned Bruce Wayne into the type of man who would choose a life of peace and romance over his formerly burning attraction to duty."
19). The Lack of Romantic Gestation (Again) between Selina and Bruce
20). Not Cutting When Alfred Smiled

Now, I was so pissed at the arse raping that Nolan gave BATMAN in Rises that I spent the whole time in the theatre doing a combination of this:

1

and this:

2
Tainted87 - 12/22/2012, 3:13 PM
@ACira

That's actually from Dark Victory, The Long Halloween's follow-up. An idea doesn't have to come from the main continuity to be in a movie... or so the Nolanites claim.
Kalel219 - 12/22/2012, 4:25 PM
Falcone is confirmed as Catwoman's dad in "Catwoman: When In Rome"
JDUKE25 - 12/22/2012, 5:57 PM
I agree about it not feeling like Gotham City.

You make a good point with the Star Wars comparison

I definitely agree with the years in retirement. I said 3, 4 at the most. 8 was ridiculous.

And yes, I would LOVE to see Robin and/or Nightwing portrayed correctly in the big screen. Don't really care for Batgirl.
ComfortablyNumb - 12/22/2012, 6:00 PM
The more I think about it the more Nolan ruined Batman for me.
NeoBaggins - 12/22/2012, 6:00 PM
lol People are still doing this?
ATrueHero1987 - 12/22/2012, 6:17 PM
My biggest(and maybe my only complaint) in the Nolan trilogy is killing off Two-Face. Seriously.

pud333 - 12/22/2012, 6:21 PM
I felt having the League come back in TDKR was perfect. It brings to close the themes introduced in BB and TDK. Bruce trains with the League and learns that he must make himself something more. Then by the end of the trilogy, he's accomplished that. Even though Batman is "dead" he still lives on as an enduring symbol. I thought it was very poetic and a perfect ending to the trilogy.
johnblake - 12/22/2012, 6:21 PM
NUMBER FRICKING SEVEN WAS MY FN PROBLEM
bs77 - 12/22/2012, 6:25 PM
From what I've seen and read regarding the fictional "Dent Act", it appears to be well within state's legal rights, and even exists to some degree already in several states. The name "Dent Act" sounds retarded, and I think that's the major hangup. I live in VA and we have a state RICO law that is more broad than the the Federal RICO law, and allows the courts to penalize members of gangs or criminal enterprizes more harshly. A lot of laws have been updated and rewritten to address gangs that operate as "enterprizes". Some laws restrict and/or revoke appeals and parole rights which just keeps badguys in jail longer, and prevents the proverbial "revolving door" from happening. I don't see any constitutional hangups. They still get their day in court, they just stay in jail longer.
marvel72 - 12/22/2012, 6:43 PM
i would just do the following........

-lose the batman voice
-remake the dark knight rises
-replace bane,selina kyle & talia al ghul with the riddler & penguin.
Pokeysteve - 12/22/2012, 6:46 PM
Why isn't
"Bruce Wayne potentially being a legitimate retard."
on here?
Vapes - 12/22/2012, 6:55 PM
The League of Shadows comeback in Rises is just kind of how movie trilogies work. Blame Star Wars. Two Death Stars.

Get it now?


And the "crime boss" of Rises was the corporate slime running errands for Bane (forget his name). Crime has many forms.
gmoney0505 - 12/22/2012, 7:02 PM
I am about ready for people who have ideas for a Batman story to write an original single space 50 pages or more story so we all can read it See what imagination people have and not plagiarize from previous stories.
ClobberPot - 12/22/2012, 7:33 PM
3. The Dent Act is reference to the Patriot Act.

6. When talking about things that make a trilogy bad, why draw similarities between it and the most beloved trilogy ever?
ToTheManInTheColdSweat - 12/22/2012, 7:55 PM
Ummm guys the movie is over, we shall get a reboot in 3 - 4 years. Too tired to give a shit about tdkr at this point.
BIGBMH - 12/22/2012, 8:11 PM
@ToTheManInTheColdSweat, But not too tired to comment...
TheDetectiveComicRises - 12/22/2012, 8:30 PM
The series is fine as it is let it go! The man as in Nolan only did what many before him has done he told a story it is like Denny O'Neill said "Batman has become like Hamlet. There is no right or wrong way tell his story."

TDK trilogy is the greatest Superhero franchise ever now on to Man of Steel to Justice League & Beyond :)
AsianVersionOfET - 12/22/2012, 8:46 PM
Yeahhhh-no.
AsianVersionOfET - 12/22/2012, 8:47 PM
Most pointless article ever created. Holy shit it's getting out of control on this website.
TheDetectiveComicRises - 12/22/2012, 8:51 PM
http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/12/18/qmis-top-10-movies-of-2012
FoxForce5 - 12/22/2012, 9:02 PM
As someone who absolutely loved Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, despite the liberties taken with the character(s) and concepts, I was SOOOOOOooooo let down by The Dark Knight Rises. I mean, it made The Godfather III look like Citizen Kane. There were so many plot holes, story and pacing problems that I left shaking my head and thinking how great it could have been.

Was it better then the Joel Schumacher films? Well, yeah, but that's about it. If, for arguments' sake, BB ranked a 90 (just using the numbers as an example) and TDK ranked a 100 then TDKR would be, maybe a 30 so psyched as I was after seeing Heath Ledger's joker, I now can't wait for another reboot. -Which sucks cause TDKR could have been one of the best CBMs ever... it just wasn't.
TheFox - 12/22/2012, 9:55 PM
I'm going to say something that a lot of people aren't going to agree with, but it's something that's absolutely key to enjoying Nolan's take on Batman:

Bruce Wayne becoming Batman was a bad f%$#ing idea.

The major arguments against Nolan's films seem to center around people hating the fact that Bruce can move on as a person and give up being Batman. But that argument hinges entirely on the idea that being Batman in the first place was a GOOD thing. And that's the thing: it wasn't. Batman is an expression of misplaced rage and pain, a scarred child lashing out against the thing that hurt him. Just because he's accomplishing good in the end, it doesn't mean his methods or his actions are justifiable.

And think about it: in a world where there was no League of Shadows (the one threat in these films that Batman isn't directly responsible for), wouldn't Batman be kind of excessive? He's not fixing problems in the long run-- he's just bludgeoning the shit out of criminals and sending them into an already overcrowded prison system. He's treating symptoms, but not the real problems in Gotham. Couldn't Bruce have done considerably more for the city by investing in police enforcement and social services-- purging corruption through legitimate channels, and making Gotham a safer, more peaceful place for everyone?

And as a lot of people have pointed out, the only way Batman can keep being Batman is if he maintains a constant state of psychological damage-- never letting the pain of his parents death go from his mind, and staying locked in a perpetual state of rage. In a comic book world, that sort of thing can be made light of, but in reality, there are only two results from a mindset like that: either you finally break through the trauma and move on with your life, or you spiral down into depression, and either kill yourself or get someone else to do it for you. That's not heroic-- that's tragic. And that's not the kind of ending that Bruce Wayne deserved.

Nolan's films have always been about Bruce Wayne FIRST and Batman SECOND. Saving the city has been the basic plot of each of the Dark Knight movies, but ultimately they're about how Bruce Wayne chooses to deal with his trauma. In the first film he finds a way to channel his rage into productive action, but in the second, he has to face the consequences of those actions, which leads up to the third film, where he finally realizes that he has to let go of his pain to have any sort of a real life (not that he lets that keep him from saving the day).

And in the end, he's still managed to help Gotham by giving them a symbol that decent people can rally around-- a symbol that can motivate good people to improve their city and their lives. It wasn't the BEST way he could have helped Gotham, but he still managed to help in SOME way. Because evil isn't something that a single person can be held responsible for, or something that a single person can put a stop to; evil is systemic, a product of a complacent society that looks the other way when the greedy and the ruthless prey on the disadvantaged and the desperate. Pushing a society to better itself from within is a FAR greater act of heroism that kicking the snot out of some mugger or a fat man in a tuxedo.

So if your big complaint about The Dark Knight Rises is that "Batman would NEVER quit!", you need to stop thinking about Batman the invincible comic book character and start thinking about Bruce Wayne, a human being who is trying to cope with his pain. A real person shouldn't be expected to shoulder that kind of a burden for his entire life. And Nolan's message in the movie is ultimately a hopeful one: it IS possible to move on from trauma. It IS possible to have a better life. We don't have to define ourselves by our pain.

Nolan's making a point about LIFE. He's just illustrating it through the story of Batman.

Besides, it's not like THE Batman is going anywhere. You want the adventures of Bruce Wayne to continue? Just pick up a comic book or wait for the inevitable reboot. But I, for one, am glad that somewhere in the stable of comics, movies, and T.V. shows dedicated to the Dark Knight, someone saw fit to give the miserable son-of-a-bitch a "happily ever after".

Z
ThePowerCosmic - 12/22/2012, 10:36 PM
@ Preston

Couldnt agree more! Well said.

Also I agree with this article except I feel Roland Daggett was supposed to be the criminal mastermind role, its just that Nolan killed him off way too fast. Another bad move.
sameoldthing - 12/22/2012, 10:51 PM
It was hard to be entertained by TDKR when the film kept making stupid mistakes / annoying events that took place from the start to the sad end.

Avengers had mistakes but was damn fun & entertaining.
Cmon..someone had to mention The Avengers. Heh-heh.
SotNatt - 12/22/2012, 11:01 PM
@UniBeam11
@LEVITIKUZ

Not spelling errors, GRAMMAR errors. You should have proofread the article before submitting it.
Darth258 - 12/22/2012, 11:21 PM
@Preston @TheFox: Totally agree

@LEVITIKUZ: Well done. I agree wth all points. And i miss the classic theme too, hope they take it back in the future movies.

Also one thing that ruined the movie to me were the "Fernet Branca" and the "Only you can fix the autopilot" plot boomerangs.
That was dumb enaugh to ruin every movie. But probably the ability to understand is way beyond some people.
HarveyDent88 - 12/22/2012, 11:27 PM
Nice read man. I do really agree with your first point.
Darth258 - 12/22/2012, 11:28 PM
lol @AsianVersionOfET comment, he's all like, omg people is allowded to point at those things out of the comment section now, stahp that.

And i don't see errors reading the articles.
TheFox - 12/22/2012, 11:46 PM
@Darth258: Ummm... I wasn't agreeing with Preston.

Preston argued that Nolan's Batman was "Batman in name only". I was arguing that Nolan's Batman was simply a fully-realized human being. That doesn't make him any less Batman-- it just makes him a different interpretation of the character, one that carries the psychology of the character to a conclusion that no other version of Batman was willing to do: catharsis.

...

Okay, so I suppose we can BOTH agree that Nolan's Batman wasn't a perfect adaptation of the comic character. But Preston's saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying that's a GOOD thing. It's a more mature interpretation of the character, and it sends a positive message in the end rather than wallowing in self-indulgent moodiness and an endless, almost juvenile preoccupation with vengeance.

And keep in mind: I LOVE Batman. I've loved the comic books and the movies since I was three years old. But Batman doesn't send a very good message if you take him seriously: he advocates violence and neuroses over social responsibility and catharsis. He's basically a teenage power fantasy, because he caters to an adolescent sense of isolation, persecution, and powerlessness. But Nolan's films are made for ADULTS, not kids; ending the story with Batman finding peace is just a grown-up way to conclude the story.

I'm not saying that the comic book Batman is inferior, or that the Nolan Batman is better; they're the same character and the same story, just told for different audiences. It's all just a matter of what you prefer.

Z
Darth258 - 12/23/2012, 12:07 AM

@TheFox, sorry, it was rushed.

I was agreeing on the fact you said that Nolan's take on Batman was "Bruce Wayne becoming Batman was a bad f%$#ing idea.".
Though that was the key for you to enjoy the movie it was mine to dispise it.
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