Will the Avengers be based on Classic or Ultimate Marvel?

The coming of The Avengers has been marked already with many questions and interrogations but the biggest one is probably “Classic or Ultimate” line. I´ll try to answer it…

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By KnightWriter - 2/22/2012
Before we get to know the answer to that, we must have seen the solo movies.
But they are all very confusing also; they have mixed details of each Universe. Let´s see the main ones:
The suits are always a font of decision in these matters - in the case of Iron Man, he explicitly wears the classic suit; Hulk is Hulk; Captain America seems to be adopted more from the Ultimate one for obvious reasons and Thor has been clearly based on Classic otherwise we wouldn´t have a cape or helmet. Now, Nick Fury is clearly Ultimate.

Another factor on the line is the ideology of which one, thing that seems to be on Classic side this time- Tony is always Tony; Hulk seems not to be “cannibal” like some may describe him in the Ultimate version; Steve seems to have more empathy for life than his Ultimate counterpart and the Odinson is out of no doubt (yet again) based on Classic line in this because he´s no hippie nor pacifist, much the contrary. Maybe the only thing it has from the latter version is that no one believes he´s really the God of Thunder.

There´s so many factors that can determinate the general version of each movie but the primary ones are these.
Now, reviewing the trailer, we can see that Thor maybe really ports the Ultimate suit because sometimes we see no cape, Hawkeye is an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. and we are all yet to see what the hell is the army of Loki and with that, maybe we can have an answer.

But better than wait for another trailer or be waiting for actors to misspeak (like the little girl of the Dark Knight Rises that let go she was Talia Al´Gul) is to wait for the movie itself, there we can see what it will really be: Classic, Ultimate or will make the unexpected (probably more expected for any director who is on a project like this) and make some of his own versions?

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36 Comments
marvel72 - 2/22/2012, 2:30 PM
its the best of both universes,thats what the marvel cinematic universe is based on.
Wolverine19742 - 2/22/2012, 2:40 PM
Dose it really matter?? It The Avengers Movie and it's something that DC can't even grasp the concept of.
KnightWriter - 2/22/2012, 2:47 PM
Of course it matters, outside Marvel there´s Marvel vs Dc and inside Marvel there´s Classic vs Ultimate
Paulley - 2/22/2012, 3:04 PM
Neither, the MCU is its own separate thing that uses the best fitting bits from 70 years of source material to create the universe that works.

Also Thor really isnt the god of thunder.... he is an Alien that uses technology so mind-boggling it use we humans consider it "magic"
CraptainAmerica - 2/22/2012, 3:21 PM
It's already been stated that it's a mix of both. I think that's clear to see.

Ultimate Hawkeye look, 616 persona maybe? Same for Thor. The reverse for Iron Man looks wise. Your bang on about Cap's persona. Not sure about Black Widow's. Fury is obvious. Loki seems the perfect mix.

The one I'm curious about is if the Hulk will follow the Ultimate route (minus Freddie Prince Jnr) and his 'helicarrier escape' will be self inflicted or not?

I think the answer to the question in your article is evident. But it's a great talking point depending on which way you lean within Marvel comics
95 - 2/22/2012, 3:23 PM
They learn from the mistakes of 616 and Ultimates universe.

It's a bit of an original interpretation and best of both worlds.

(like @marvel72 said)
Luminus - 2/22/2012, 3:29 PM
Thor IS the god of thunder. Just because you and I know he's using technology (he isn't in the comics), doesn't mean he's suddenly not the person the ancients worshiped. They labeled him the "god of thunder," and therefore that's what he is. It's a nickname and nothing more.
soundwave129 - 2/22/2012, 3:30 PM
@ Paulley
I don't care what the movies say, he's still the Thunder God to me. (Although really they never mention technology of any kind as far as I can remember in Thor.)
Paulley - 2/22/2012, 3:32 PM
He was considered the "god of thunder" by ancient people.. but he isnt an actual god... so yes only by nickname.

Which is fine by me... if it was actually like the comics it would make no sense and be extra silly.
Paulley - 2/22/2012, 3:36 PM
Yea there is a lot of "technology" in Thor. Main example being the wormhole/portal guiding thingy :P .. also the science is magic speech.
Hawksblueyes - 2/22/2012, 3:43 PM
They all sport their classic personalities and outside of Hawkeye, their classic costumes (Caps costume is far enough away from both Ultimates and 616 to be considered a movie version by itself). The ONLY thing they seem to be borrowing heavily from The Ultimates is the way the team comes together.
MrCape - 2/22/2012, 10:17 PM
The movie clearly shown that Thor is an alien from planet Asgard. But he was considered the god of thunder by ancient people due to little knowledge of universe or maybe science.... Remember, magic is just science we don't understand yet...
Paulley - 2/23/2012, 12:39 AM
Also i guess we should mention that the 616 is now trying to be more like the Ultimate/MCU universes with Hawkeye's new costume, and the new black "Mick" Fury..

Fuckyoutrolls - 2/23/2012, 2:21 AM
In the Thor movie, Thor's hammer is forged in the heart of a dying star. The lightning - weather effects are channeled through it, in the film it gives off radiation, radiation is simply particles and energy traveling through a space - it is never revealed what kind of energy - magical? the worthiness Enchantment placed on the Hammer aswell?. Loki is a sorcerer - magic. Yes they have a greater technology regarding the Einstein Bridge - Rainbrow Bridge- Bifrost, but nothing suggests that magic doesn't exist in the film. Heimdall seeing and hearing everything etc. Being immortal is also not explained hence earthlings thought them gods nor is The Odinsleep or how Thors "power" is taken from him.
The casket of Ancient Winters? Come onto f*** people, this debate about technology is pointless.



Gary8264 - 2/23/2012, 5:15 AM
It's based off both 616 and Ultimates. 1. (616) Thor has his hammer, not some axe lookin' thin'. 2. (616) They took the time to establish Steve Rogers personality. He's a Hero not a thug. 3. (616) Hulk's green. 4. (616) Iron man pretty much the same. 5. (616) Widow pretty much the same. 6. (Ulitmate) Hawkeye's lookin' more like the Utlimate. 7. (Ultimate) Uh, Fury is not from 616, that's a no brainer...haha 8. (Ultimate) Avengers work directly for Shield.
This is just a few thin's I've noticed, I'm sure there are more. Regardless The Avengers are gonna be a Hellava movie
KnightWriter - 2/23/2012, 5:18 AM
In my defense, I know that this movie´s universe is Marvel Cinematic Universe and that it is more or less the mixt between ultimate and classic. But what I mean with this article is trying to understand which of those universes the cinematic one has more elements of.
KnightWriter - 2/23/2012, 5:26 AM
I agree, The Avengers is going to be awesome. I even dare saying- it´s going to be one of the best movies ever!
Gary8264 - 2/23/2012, 5:30 AM
It's hard to say which is gonna have more elements. So far a little of both. I thin' they wanted to use the Classic Heroes for obvious reasons, but they had to form the group prior to the movie, which is why they used Nick Fury to show up in other movies. And who wouldn't want Samuel L Jackson in their movie? By havin' Fury form the team, they can now get to the story and not have to explain how everyone got together, they can skip the origin and get right to the story/action.
So to answer your queston...

"Will The Avengers Be Based On Classic Or Ultimate Marvel?"

Both.... or if you like, a little of each.

JordanKing - 2/23/2012, 7:23 AM
You answered it in your second sentence: " they have mixed details of each Universe". Since when did it have to stick to just the one universe, they're clearly taking the best of both worlds.
Gmoney84 - 2/23/2012, 8:39 AM
I would actually argue that Thor's look in the film is also a good mix of Ultimate and 616. He doesn't really wear the helmet in combat...it takes on a more ceremonial role in the film. He also has more of a Ultimate appearance as far as his beard is concerned. Granted, 616 Thor had a beard long before the Ultimates but it was mainly during the future Earth/Asgard storyline where Thor ruled Earth. Even then it was a big bushy beard. Ultimate Thor was the one to introduce the closely trimmed beard along with the handle-bar mustache thing. Thor’s chest piece is actual armor in the film much like the Ultimates chest piece. 616 always had essentially fabric with only the discs as armor. His pants are true to the original 616 depiction but the JMS run costume replaced the fabric pants with scale mail as well. And finally the boots, they are clearly Ultimate in design.
Paulley - 2/23/2012, 8:55 AM
Also in regard to Nick Fury... he may look like Ultimate version but so far i think he acts like SLJ with and eye patch rather than Fury from either universe.

@ZiDean - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke... basically magic/science same thing... think The Sorcerer's Apprentice.
meatbag - 2/23/2012, 2:01 PM
What Thor says to Jane in the movie is that in his worlsd, technology and magic are one in the same. I don't know what kind of tech could make that hammer work, anyway, but then I'm just a lowly Midgardian. His classic origin wouldn't have gone as well in a movie, and the Ultimates version is too...greenpeace. Movie Thor is his own thing.
laughterman26 - 2/24/2012, 3:09 PM
OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMYYYYYYYY GGGOOOOOOOODDDDDD
DOES NOBODY LISTEN TO MY COMMENTS.Its a mix of the ultimate universe and the classic if you were really a fan of marvel you would know this.take t.i.h as an example the whole bruce banner working on "gamma resistance [mainstream] but it actually turns out to be a remake of the super soilder serum [ultimates]. Or to be more upfront most characters have the Appearance of thier ultimate counterparts and the story of the mainstream.What also further prooves my point is NICK FURY,if youve been on here recently youll notice that at the toy fair that they are/were/i dont know if they're still, selling this but anyways.they had cologne for each major super hero and nick furys was the ifinity formula and unless its false advertising/marketing this is going to be relevant to the movie "SO HINT HINT" we already knew this.but that goes without saying nice try buddy
luckylu - 2/25/2012, 1:38 AM
as i whole i see 70% ultimate and 30% 616. personally i think it should be the other way around
KnightWriter - 2/25/2012, 3:30 AM
hey, laughterman26, I cosider every commentary important no matter if it´s trying to correct me or not, it´s opinion. But you´ve gone to far by saying I´not a really Marvel fan. Every few money I have I gather a few more and more untill I have money for the movies or especially comic books comic books. i have argues with people considering comic books are not literature. And don´t get me start to talk about how socially excluded I am sometimes because of that. Imagine what it is to choose to present a book like Dark Hawkeye:Identedy Crisis to a classed filled with a bunch of bulleys a soccer amateur players making jokes about it.A few weeks ago I even got totally rude to someone just because she started laughing when I said I bought a comic book about Green Lantern. If that´s not being a fan I don´t know what it is. And you know what, maybe I´m not a fan of Marvel like you Sir,I´m a fan of comic books, heroes, masked vigilantes and the people behind it all, the creators. I´m in love with heroism, not with it´s publisher and account manager.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=heroism&start=242&um=1&hl=pt-PT&sa=N&biw=1441&bih=621&tbm=isch&tbnid=xjUdTKgGMGNCHM:&imgrefurl=http://www.homecaremississaugasouth.com/news-expanded.php%3Fid%3D178&docid=Y6hFFblQuIAmbM&imgurl=


Excelsior!!
STOOPUDR - 2/25/2012, 8:27 AM
The movies conceptually are what the Ultimates should have been, a modernization of the marvel characters we knew.

The whole 616 v Ultimates argument is void. There really isn't two universes. There is one. The story has just been told 2 times, 3 now when you consider the MCU. The original story will always be the real story. The retelling changes and they are interesting, but the truth is the truth. I don't know if that makes sense, but I see it as there are MARVEL characters and DC characters that go beyond how the stories are told. EVERYTIME you retell the story you have a different universe. There are really a multitude of universes if you really consider all of the times they have changed their own histories. Maybe some of these characters are from the Age of Apocalypse, they just weren't shown in those books.

Any time you retell the stories the universes change. By definition this is its own Universe. I know by know you saying DUH, but I am making a point. There is no way to modernize the marvel story without it looking like the Ultimates. Because by definition, the "Modern" marvel universe is the Ultimates.

The question is really, how many times are they going to be lazy (not meant in a derogatory way) and reuse portions of the last "modernization" of the marvel universe, directly. So far, I see only a few things that blatant. Nick Fury and Hawkeye. Some plot elements have been similar to Ultimates, but they all had enough changes not to be blatant. Think of it as what could a lawyer for Ultimates sue MCU for as copywrite infringement if MCU owned only the rights to the 616 universe.
STOOPUDR - 2/25/2012, 8:35 AM
(posted before I was done by accident).

Most of the other similarities to the Ultimates could be explained as similarities because of there parallel concept.

On that note... If we consider the Ultimate Universe and the MCU as two separate and equal retellings of the original Marvel stories, which is better? is the real question. And to that there is no question. The MCU is better.
STOOPUDR - 2/25/2012, 8:37 AM
WOW. I reread that, and I cannot believe English is my first language. I guess my name is right. It was just flowing. I was typing what the voice in my head was dictating, and he was talking jiberish.
STOOPUDR - 2/25/2012, 8:42 AM
"I would make him delete it, but I stand by what I said and think I made good points." - the voice in my head.

Besides nobody is ever going to comment. I always get to the conversations late. Really, check how many times I have been the last comment on a post. It's ridiculous. I can clear an imaginary room.
KnightWriter - 2/25/2012, 1:03 PM
Don´t worry about the errors, everyone makes them. Lokk at mine latest comment
PeterParker1991 - 2/25/2012, 1:37 PM
Majority of this mini-series leading up to Avengers is based on Ultimate. The new Spiderman movie for instance is definitely ultimate style, with the high school thing for example. Everything else minus his parents back story is Ultimate.
PeterParker1991 - 2/25/2012, 1:39 PM
In short, Ultimate is used because it's easier to translate into film. Thor especially because of how the Asgardians are known to speak and whatnot.
OneAboveAll - 2/25/2012, 11:54 PM
Actually ZiDean is absolutely correct. Thor IS the god of thunder. And in the movie he states science and magic are one in the same. That doesn't mean that his ENCHANTED hammer is run on technology people. What he means is that they go hand in hand. And what we as earthlings think is science is actually magic or a combination of both. Thor is NOT an alien with vastly superior technology. Yes Asgard has technology that is far superior to ours. And yes Thor uses it. However, that most certainly doesn't mean Thor is who he is because of technology. Quite the contrary. To put it simply. Thor is the Odinson. The son of ODIN. Thor's power doesn't come from technology. It comes from his father...The ALLFATHER! lol...And btw in the movie he doesn't say technology...he says science and magic are one in the same. Two very different concepts in this particular discussion about the movie Thor. Oh and btw regardless of the diaologue, acting, writing, directing, or story-line. This movie is going to be a massive success. And most definitely going to be quite enjoyable. After all it's the f ucking AVENGERS assembled in a live action movie! I have spoken.
ThePresence - 2/25/2012, 11:56 PM
Agreed!
KnightWriter - 2/26/2012, 3:50 AM
Agreed!
laughterman26 - 2/29/2012, 9:33 PM
KnightWriter-well let me correct myself.

take none of this as sarcasm,im sorry if ive hurt you feelings.i was just assuming that you were one of those comic book fans that are really into comics but just choose not to face the facts such as the whole ultimate 616 dilema for that i apologize i did not know your back story and what i was saying was to answer your question my own opinoin and a false statement.

i had no intention as coming off as a dickhead and had no intention for you to take it personally.
now as for the faggots at you school [and nothing against homosexuals i just like that word cause its effective]any way.....as for the faggots at your school there dick heads dont worry about them and just from steryo typing im assuming you go to an american or italian school so dont try to fit in, blend in.

if a girl laughs at you for having a comic laugh at her for being blonde or acting blonde again based on steryo typing because if you do go to an american school the majority of the girls are interested in fashion and if she slaps you call her fat.now this is probbably going to get you into trouble but say this to the soccer jocks [this is going to hrt them unless thier italian]-you guys will never make it as soccer players due to the fact your american,in your teens,have horrible hand eye co-ordination so therfore you suck and the truly great soccer players are not from america so hence that you suck.

And if they say i bet that your not any better just say i have no intrest in soccer and your attempts to make all of you look any stupider than you already do and if they try to bash you or they do...inform their coach and im pretty sure theyll be suspended and if he doesnt do anything ill come all the way over there out of australia to personally kick all of their teeth in because im a soccer and rugby player and can kick the ball really high [i would say 30 feet high but that sounds to high plus im not good with math] well that and i havent been in a fight with anyone since year seven and would enjoy trying to beat the sh-t out of kids who are probably bigger than i am

oh and everyones a nerd in thier own way soccer jocks-love soccer hence soccer nerds/geeks. fashionistas as i like to call them are interested in fashion so you get the idea

oh and be proud to be a comic book nerd im a comic book nerd probbably the one of the coolest biggest nerds youll ever meet youll ever meet and im a bit of an anti bully instead of bashing the little dudes such as you self i like bashing the bigger bullys cause it makes me feel like a comic book character on steroids

stay cool buddy !!!!

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