Spider-Man 3, could it have been saved?

We all know Spider-Man 3 was....bad, but could it have been saved?

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By RandmHero - 9/8/2010
I'm sure we all feel the same about the third installment of the Spider-Man trilogy, it sucked. So let's explore what made it so bad, and what could have been changed.

First off, villains.
Sandman- decent villain, honestly, no problem with film adaptation of character. Gold Star.

New Goblin- again no real major problems, but come on Raimi, if you killed off any more Spider-Man villains you wouldn't be able to make another movie anyway.

Venom- now I know when we all heard Venom (and the black suit itself) were going to be in this one, we were very excited. But it appears someone at Sony has some sort of mental health disorder. It's like they went, "alright, now Eddie Brock is a big tough guy and one of Spider-Man's greatest foes....let's get that nerdy guy off 'That 70's Show' that'll be good." And then on top of it, they kill him too, so far as I know.

Then the thing that really bothered us....emo Parker. I know the dark suit is supposed to represent his "dark side" but come on, wtf. I didn't know that when a super hero's dark side is let out he dances badly for everyone and thinks jazz hands are a super power.

Besides all that the story....pretty much sucked. Random character's thrown in and a story that should make Stan Lee ashamed, I'm not sure this movie even deserves to be saved.

Maybe with some actor changes, a better script, and some villains that actually live, this movie could have been good. And a side gripe, Parker barely cracked a joke in any of the movies. Is Spider-Man not known for his wise-cracks. Anyway, same drill as before, I'm sure there are things I missed, and there may be some of you who disagree with me. Booyashaka.
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airbeyonder18 - 9/8/2010, 7:29 PM
There were a lot of things that could have been changed but I'm overall happy with how the Triligy. I'm just sad that it came to an abrupt end.

InSpace - 9/8/2010, 7:44 PM

First off there portrayal of Sandman was horrible !

They could have had Sandman be a thug sneaking into Oscorp to escape a Robbery and then be caught in some test, not "Oh its just birds" BS. And then get his revenge on Osborn.
While Harry could have turned into Goblin w/ a costume more like the comics and have him Stalk Spidey and MJ like Eddie Brock. He could also hire Sandman to attack Spidey.

Now for the Symbiote they could have had it's arrival be more public like the Animated series, Cause A Meteor containing a alien lifeform comes coincidentally right were peter is. Also they should of had the relationship with MJ a little slower she JUST left a guy on the altar and she's already dating Peter like they've been goin out for like 3 years.They could of Had Gwen be an actual love interest. And Eddie could of been a bit beefier not too beefy but not skinny like topher, what people dont understand is that Brock wasnt always that beefy he had cancer and lost his wife so to vent he started exercising ALOT which is why he's super brolic in some comics.

And they should of put Peter more Angry since the symbiote loves rage . then they could just put that whole bell tower scene in the end where it should have been all along.

thats pretty much most of the stuff I have to say about the film
TheDarqueOne - 9/8/2010, 7:58 PM
First off not everybody hated Spider-Man III. What we have here are a bunch of vocal people who did hate it. It was quite successful as well which I grant does not have anything to do with source material accuracy.

In modern CBMs people die. I am pretty sure there are about 100 Villains that have gone after Spidey over the years. There are so many great ones that have not even been mentioned yet I really do not see the problem with some of them getting killed. Vulture, Electro and Mysterio come to mind but there are more.

Emo Parker...

Ok. The scene was too long I grant that. And when a scene goes on too long it tends to become something it should not be.

Peter Parker has been 'Clark Kenting' his way through life ever since he got his powers correct? He was not the star athlete in High School that he could have easily been, he is not rich, and just look at where the poor guy lives.

Peter has made these sacrifices so that he can be Spider-Man. His normal life sucks.

Now the black suit has taken him over and he sees his x-girlfriend. An Ex I might point out is a stage actress who also sings. So what does Peter do? He shows off. He dances in a way that is beyond normal skill. Didn't anyone think that he was exposing his secret identity? That was the point of having some of his costume flash at the end so people would get that.

The truth is that during that scene he was not Peter at all he was Spider-Man. A Spider-Man who no longer cared who figures out his real identity because he is no longer a Hero.

It was not a great scene because nobody got what it was supposed to show. So it did fail in that respect but it does make sense in the context of the movie.
Denn1s - 9/9/2010, 2:28 AM
i like this film. could be better though. as for emo parker, the suit takes out all the things you have been hidding deep down in your soul. it doesn't necessarily make you bad. it just takes out all the things you don't show to others. at least according to the movie
Destroyer14 - 9/9/2010, 5:35 AM
Spider-Man 3 doesn't deserve all the bashing. It is the best movie ever in my opinion.
Stumblin - 9/9/2010, 7:28 AM
I do believe that this horse has already beaten beyond death this is ridiculous what is with all these Spider-Man 3 articles? The majority of us no why this movie was crap, though if you're going to rant about why a movie was bad give all the points I think you're missing a lot.
flames809 - 9/9/2010, 9:04 AM
you should ask Stan lee what he really thought on the film
DarthGeoffPeterson - 9/9/2010, 10:05 AM
@thedarqueone: Good call! I cldn't agree more. I don't really see what all the SM3 bashing is about, particularly the "emo" Peter. He's a [frick]ing NERD! His ideas of being "cool" or "bad-ass" is warped.I also agree with fangz about the effect the suit had being similar to him being on some sort of drug. I personally liked SM3, it did have flaws, but they all do. I swear to God, all the ppl on this site do is bash either Spider-man3 or The X-Men films all with the same exact arguments & no real substance to their rants. They just keep recycling each others opinions & don't think for themselves.
Stumblin - 9/9/2010, 10:26 AM
Regardless of what you think Darth I do think for myself, I did not like Spider-Man 3 the day I saw it.

Not comparing it to the comics but as a stand alone movie a lot of it made zero sense. The entire plot was built on random chance and coincidence. I suppose you could argue the same for the other two movies but they were a lot more believable.

Comet lands in central park exactly where Parker is? That's strange...Wonder why his Spidey sense didn't pick it up either.

Flint Marko runs through a field that happens to have a GIANT experiment, when he falls they just toss his presence as a bird? God knows it couldn't have been a cat or a dog, or a kid.

The butler decides after Harry almost dieing to tell him the truth about his father in the last movie? Why did he wait so long?

The dance numbers and singing...way too much of it, and of course the plot regurgitates itself with, oh no, MJ is captured...again and again and again.
DarthGeoffPeterson - 9/9/2010, 1:31 PM
@stumblin: Good. I'm glad to hear that, and so you are one of the only ones. You have a right to hate it as well as anyone has a right to like it. So, then you are exempt from my statement. All I was saying is that way too many ppl just as you said "regurgitate" every one elses opinion and give the exact same reasons in the exact same wording. it is human behavior to jump on bandwagons to become part of the clique, & I find way too many ppl, yourself excluded, on this site that notoriously do just that. Like you said why beat a dead horse? SM3 is what 3 yrs old now & ppl are still on this site moaning like little girls bringing up the same crap time and again that has been said to death already. Oh, & by the way yes I did like the movie, but I agree about too much coincidence in the story, and the fact that MJ was the victim yet again. It wasn't perfect by any means, but I enjoyed it.
TheDarqueOne - 9/9/2010, 2:26 PM
@Stumblin I agree with Darth if you did not like the movie that is your opinion and I respect it.

But I have to admit I am curious here. Most movies are filled with all sorts of unlikely coincidences so I was wondering what else you did not like about it.

@fangz Good post. I agree the dance scene could have been shorter and better but I think the intent was good. I was reminded of the wrestling from the first movie. When Peter uses his powers for his own ends no good ever comes of it.
RandmHero - 9/9/2010, 2:26 PM
hmm, valid opinions all. I'm just stating my opinion and actually want to hear your guys'. in truth i don't really hate this movie as much as some, but my page is about ranting, and SM3 is an easy one to rant about xD
RandmHero - 9/9/2010, 2:35 PM
and @fangs .......you. are. the. shit. why are you wherever the hell you are now and not working in a studio writing these for screenplays?
joekerr93 - 9/9/2010, 5:35 PM
i think it was pretty good, the only problem i had was when he is walking down the street like a weird douche. i understand how that and the dance scene work and seem fantastic on paper, but on screen it is weird, awkward, creepy, and bs

venom also should have had at least one more in-suit scene before the final fight scene


idea: they could have introduced eddie in the second movie, give him the symbiote towards the end of 3, and then for 4 do him and the lizard. perhaps 5 could have had carnage and the vulture. mysterio for 6, maybe also kraven

love your ideas fangz
Stumblin - 9/9/2010, 5:43 PM
DarthBeastNugget, glad we're on the same page! I don't blame people for enjoying Spider-Man 3, hell I like both Transformer movies haha! Those are incredibly hated around here but I find a spark of nostalgia in them. The cartoons were notoriously cheesy as well as the animated movie, I didn't expect anything more with Bay's take, basically I got what I wanted. The cartoon with better effects, and Optimus having the same voice as the cartoon. Granted I understand why people didn't like them, but I can look past it and still be entertained. Different strokes...

So I know where you're coming from my friend when it comes to liking something where the majority does not.

TheDarqueOne, the points I made were enough for me to dislike this movie. The randomization in the other Spidey films made sense because their was foreshadowing for the events, unlike the third movie where things happened without warning, basically just thrown into the movie.
TheDarqueOne - 9/9/2010, 7:39 PM

I would really like to respond to each of the points you listed about the movie but I don't want to be an ass. It just baffles me because I see this movie as the without-a-doubt best CBM to date. It is a comic book from start to finish. No film is perfect and I have my quibbles like anybody else. But overall it just is so much the stories I love come to life that I am hard pressed not to defend it.

thetrubatman14 - 9/9/2010, 9:39 PM
go get em marc webb
TheDarqueOne - 9/10/2010, 4:52 AM
@thetrubatman14 Thanks that added so much to the conversation.
CorndogBurglar - 9/10/2010, 5:00 AM

any movie COULD have been good...
TheDarqueOne - 9/10/2010, 5:45 AM
I feel the need to define my terms a bit. CBM for me is a movie in which all elements are based in some part on the source material.

A good CBM takes some elements, a great one takes a bunch of elements and makes them epic. So I acknowledge that Batman Begins for example is a far, far better film than Spider-Man III on the normal movie standards.

I love BB really. But as far as what I consider a proper CBM SMIII is far better. In Batman Begins not only is there no mention of Superman but young Bats is a love sick fool. And everybody has known since the 1960s that the only woman that Bats loves is called Catwoman.

Stumblin - 9/10/2010, 8:27 AM
TheDarqueOne, if you want to debate with me I'm all for it brother! Just don't take what I say personally or be insulting because once you start insulting I'm going to stop talking like I did with Spiderman2o29 because after that there is no point to reason.

Too many faults were in Spider-Man 3 for me to enjoy it, I did like some aspects I really enjoyed the action, but the pacing was terrible and felt redundant having MJ in distress. I was hoping for something more out of the third installment. This movie wasn't able to give you much depth in any of the characters either, Green Goblin II did a complete 180 because his butler who knew the real story about Norman's death decides to tell him the truth after what three years (I'm guessing a year for each movie I could be wrong) Sorry I'd be pissed at the butler and being as mentally unstable as Harry was I don't believe he would reconcile so quickly and except the truth.

Your point about Batman Begins (by the way Batman was created in 1939) is confusing, why would Nolan want to mention Superman? What does he have to do with Batman's origin?

And him being a love sick fool, understand before his tragedy he grows up with a girl who he falls in love, makes sense that he still loves her. In the movie it makes sense to have some weakness for Batman, makes him more human I think it was a good addition for Nolan to make in the movie. To add Batman has had many love interests in the comics:
Vicki Vale (originated in the 50's)
Talia al Ghul
Natalia Knight
Wonder Woman
Black Canary
TheDarqueOne - 9/10/2010, 2:56 PM

I think debate is not the correct word as I am not trying to convince you of anything. I want to start with your original list because it has some direct answers.

"Comet lands in central park exactly where Parker is? That's strange...Wonder why his Spidey sense didn't pick it up either."

Movies and Comics live off of concidences like the first one. I don't like them all that much myself but they are common. But the important part to this is about the Spidey-Sense. It detects direct threats to his person. The falling creature was in no way a direct threat hence no tingles.

"Flint Marko runs through a field that happens to have a GIANT experiment"

That is just a staple sort of scene from the comics. People are sloppy and something bad happens. I agree it is not 100% realistic but how can you make Sandman with 100% realism as the standard? You really can't.

"The butler decides after Harry almost dieing to tell him the truth about his father in the last movie? Why did he wait so long?"

He is a butler of the old school. What are his very first words to Harry when he finally does speak? I believe they were something like 'It is not my place to say this but... I stood by and watched your father destroy himself and I don't want to see it happen again.' Harry almost died as you said so the faithful servant finally steps out of his place to say something.

I don't think you grew up with servents of this sort, I certainly did not although my Mom sometimes claimed to be my maid, they are not friends they are workers. The actions of the Butler seem to me to be completely realistic and at the same time touching.

"I was hopeing for something more out of the third installment."

I just cannot help but feel that expectations for something beyond perfection were bound to not be met. I just looked up some ratings for I & II and they are like 90 & 95. Movies are not logical constructions. Each one has to find it's own spark. Most sequels are terrible, many are utter crap, some few are ok. The number of sequels that even equal the original are rare.

It would have been cool to actually see Rami get 100 for III but it just did not happen.

My point about Batman and Superman...

I might write an article on this but to put it simply. Superman and Batman have been connected almost since their very beginning. The entire time both have been doing their thing they have been connected. Nolan did a fine adaptation of the Batman character but left out the single most important person in Batman's life. I love Batman Begins but if there had been a mention of Metropolis or anything even hinting at Superman's existance I would call it a brilliant CBM. As it is I think of it as a brilliant movie and a very good CBM.

Batman and Racheeeeeellllllllll!

Rachel is in there because she is a required component. Any reasons are afterthoughts really. Of all the SuperHeros I know there are few who are less in need of a love interest than Batman. He is a complex multilayered person with an amazing existance. What I saw on the screen was cool and well done but Batman is still only a shadow of his true magnificence.

The Bat and the Cat...

Sure Bats has had some flings. Many were played at a time when the melodrama was pretty heavy. But only one of them has had a child with him that became a minor star on her own. I am just saying that the Bat and Cat belong together and the rest are just some fun along the way.

squirt - 9/10/2010, 6:44 PM
spidey 3 was the weakest of the three. i like the idea of lizard/kraven for 4, but for 5 have lizard and chameleon. 6 could be scorpion and maybe rhino. have the arrival of the symbiote at the end. gg2 for 7 with return of the scorpion. have spidey defeat both using symbiote but sheds it and it finds brock. making venom. that could have been the venom spinoff rated r featuring carnage.
Stumblin - 9/13/2010, 7:54 AM
Well despite what you say this is in fact a debate. You're trying to convince me of your view on Spider-Man 3. I'm still not convinced.

Like I noted previously I understand about some randomness but their is usually foreshadowing, their was none in this movie, it was just thrown in there.

Spidey sense is also not for direct danger it's anything that may pose a threat near by, for instance a gun fight a block down the street would trigger it to let him know of any possible issues that would arise.

As for the butler letting Harry know at the last minute I still feel is a crock, but I do agree with you that in some cases when it comes to being a butler it's like being a doctor, you do your job that's it.

To think I wanted more for the third film does not mean I want perfection, I love the first and second Spidey films but their was a lot I would have wanted to change, but I still very much enjoy them. The third movie was by far the weakest of all of them. It had a weak plot, same issue of MJ being in distress, and just the shear randomness with zero build up.

I'm not commenting on the Batman schpeal anymore the fact you think that because no mention of Superman made it a less of a CBM does make any sense to me. I understand it'd be cool to have some link but it was not necessary. I'm not even sure why you brought up Batman in the first place, we're talking about Spider-Man.

TheDarqueOne - 9/13/2010, 10:39 AM
The reason I do not see it as a debate is because I expect to win those! *grins*

You went to the theater and saw Spider-Man III and you did not enjoy it. That is a the heart of the matter. I am sorry about that and it makes me feel a little guilty because I went and was just blown completely away. It was in fact the very literal meaning of a dream come true.

What I look for in CBMs is comic material and moments. The best get the spirit right and the very best get a lot of details correct as well. Nobody has come as close to a full-on translation as Rami did. I can enjoy adaptations like X-Men or Batman for what they are but I cannot help but long for the full deal.

The full deal in the comics are worlds where multiple SuperHeros live. It allows them to tell these huge Epic stories filled with raw emotion, danger and excitement. In the realm of the movies Batman can finally put Joker down for good. People complain about the deaths of Villains? If they are murdering scum then those are deaths I have been longing to see for many, many years.

What I think needs to happen more than anything else is we have to break the R barrier. So far the attempts have not done well enough to get things going. I can enjoy Batman Begins and TDK but I cannot help but wish for the full unlimited intensity that Batman could be.

So far I have only seen little glimpses of the intensity level I want from a CBM. The final scenes from both X-Men III and Spider-Man III are the biggest we have ever seen. Every Fan will have their quibbles but just taken for what they are the effect is... a comic book on the big screen.

The sort of scene that has dominated 90% of every SuperHero comic book since Superman first flew has finally been brought to life. Imperfect but damn I had to wait a long time to see that.
Stumblin - 9/13/2010, 1:09 PM
I have to disagree I think the first Iron Man is by far one of the best mainstream adaptations, completely surpassing all Spider-Man movies.

Best non mainstream (current as in made in the past 15 years) would be Hellboy.
TheDarqueOne - 9/13/2010, 2:57 PM

I think the first Hulk was a great monster movie just not very much like the comics. The newer one with Edward Norton was excellent. I enjoyed it quite a bit and am sad Norton was too expensive for the Avengers.


Iron was very good both as a movie and as a CBM. It gets extra marks because of the after the credits connection to the bigger Marvel Universe. But Iron Man I lacks the Epic nature that I feel belongs in a CBM. I could see the arguement that Iron Man II is the best CBM ever but since I do not have that on DVD yet I have not really been able to savor and judge.

When I do have it on DVD it might replace either Spider-Man III or X-Men III at the top. But of course all the things I love about Iron Man II have been the subject of complaints here.

No SuperHero is supposed to be an Island!

They all exist in the context of their various shared universes. So to me Iron Man I is great but Iron Man II is just so much better.
Stumblin - 9/14/2010, 6:01 AM
I agree it's a great bonus when a movie has cameos, either physically or just mentioning a name in the background. I can see you definitely like the underdog type movies, Iron Man II though incredibly enjoyable I think the first one still vastly surpasses it.

I have to ask though because you seem to really want cameos of some type in every CBM but I can't think of a single one in Spider-Man. They mention Superman but not as an existing being...that is of course DC.
TheDarqueOne - 9/16/2010, 5:03 PM
What I like is mostly based on comic book content. I have seen tons of great action movies, lots of romances, plenty of drama. What I have yet to see is a real full-on SuperHero movie.

You are correct the Spider-Man movies pretty much exist in isolation. That is part of why of the 3 I enjoy the last the most. 3 Villains and Spidey. The fight at the end is a comic book fight done right. There have been very few of those at all and no others that got the power, speed, and feel of a SuperHero battle correct.

X3 comes close but it is somewhat muddled so Spidey III holds the #1 slot with me for now. Iron-Man II might take it once I watch it a few times and see how it holds up.

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