EDITORIAL: The Danger In Making Comic Book Movies For The Fans

EDITORIAL: The Danger In Making Comic Book Movies For The Fans EDITORIAL: The Danger In Making Comic Book Movies For The Fans

Before proceeding, please know this article is not intended to cause a “flame war”, though it surely will. This is merely an opinion piece. For a full understanding please read the articles that are linked throughout the piece.

Editorial Opinion
By thejoshl - Sep 20, 2013 11:09 PM EST
Filed Under: Other
Source: Josh Lewis



Turn the clocks back just over a decade and people wouldn’t believe you if you told them that comic book movies would take over the industry one day. When comic book movies were first on the rise filmmakers weren’t sure how to please fans, this is when films like BATMAN & ROBIN, HULK, DAREDEVIL and CATWOMAN were coming out -- all of which were met with an onslaught of hatred. It wasn’t until Bryan Singer’s X-MEN and Sam Raimi’s SPIDER-MAN that people finally understood the potential of comic book movies. All of a sudden Hollywood knew just how much money all these franchises were worth and they had filmmakers who knew how to please that particular audience. This period is when we received some of the strongest comic book films ever made, such as HELLBOY, SIN CITY, SPIDER-MAN 2, BATMAN BEGINS, KICK-ASS, THE DARK KNIGHT, A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, X-MEN 2, and IRON MAN. All of these films came as a result of filmmakers looking to put their own touch on these widely loved characters, but also to keep fans of the source material in mind while doing so.

Now things have changed. Recent comic book movies have shown us a different breed of film, the kind where audience reaction is more important than a good story. You will find this in most Marvel films, especially the ones leading up to THE AVENGERS with the exception of IRON MAN. If you were to delve into THE INCREDIBLE HULK, THOR and CAPTAIN AMERICA - all films that were met with good reactions from comic book fans – you would find a severe lack of substance. These three films do a great job hiding their faults by giving the audience exactly what they want, and fans can confuse getting what they want with a good movie. So as a result a film that is average at best can succeed well at the box office, however these films (and others) have set a very dangerous precedent for the future of comic book movies.



Fan service is not a good thing. Luckily in the past audiences have been able to spot the difference between good movies and fan service, the biggest example being the STAR WARS prequels, which were entirely designed for fans and ended up being awful because of that. Unfortunately now production companies have gotten quite good at hiding bad stories by layering them with plot. Yes there is a difference between story and plot. Film Crit Hulk wrote an amazing article labeled THE AGE OF THE CONVOLUTED BLOCKBUSTER that will go into more detail about what I’m about to tell you guys, but essentially these comic book films have turned their back on story and replaced it with plot, and it’s to the point where audiences are actually unaware that this is happening. Any person that goes into specifics about how a film has illogical moments isn’t focused on the story but rather the plot (i.e. How did Bruce get back to Gotham in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES?) Whether a film ties up all its loose ends logically shouldn’t actually matter as long if it’s telling a good story. Film Crit Hulk put it best when he said:

THE TRUTH IS THAT THE REAL VICTIM OF THIS CONVOLUTED PLOTTING IS TRADITIONAL DRAMA. BY OBFUSCATING CLARITY IN THE NAME OF A GRANDIOSE PUZZLE, WE CAN’T HELP BUT GET IN THE WAY OF THE OPTIMAL EMOTIONAL RESONANCE IN OUR STORIES. WE MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE CONSTRUCTIONS. WE SHOW ALL THE STRINGS. AND IT'S GOTTEN TO SUCH AN OBLIVIOUS STATE THAT THIS IS BAD THAT WE NOT ONLY SHOW THESE STRINGS, BUT THEN TURN TO THE AUDIENCE AND SAY "Hey! Look at all those strings I tied! Don't they look complicated!?!?! I did that!"


And the truth is that that oblivious state in the writing room has now become the oblivious state in the theatre. Audiences care more about how many plots match up to the comics rather than a good story unfolding in front of them. This has dramatically lowered the expectations in blockbusters (including comic book movies), and production companies will exploit this for as long as they can. I am not at all suggesting all comic book films are like this. Nolan’s BATMAN BEGINS and Whedon’s AVENGERS were well-crafted stories that just happened to please fans, and that’s the ideal movie. Nolan’s THE DARK KNIGHT is actually in a story-plot limbo. While it suffers from the convoluted blockbuster disease Nolan has a way of turning his convoluted plots into actual human drama -- something no one else has been able to do, other than maybe Abrams with STAR TREK (2009).



But here we approach the epitome of this issue: MAN OF STEEL. For some MAN OF STEEL is one of the greatest comic book movies of all time. It was written by David S. Goyer, the guy who helped get Nolan’s Batman to the screen so why shouldn’t it be just as good, right? This is the film that has sparked this topic for me. MAN OF STEEL has been widely loved by comic book fans because it’s exactly the kind of movie they wanted. A darker, more real take on Superman. MAN OF STEEL suffers from the same issue that the THE DARK KNIGHT RISES had yet people are so eager to hate that film and love this one, why? It’s because on the surface level MAN OF STEEL has nothing inherently wrong with it, while Nolan’s conclusion to Batman had some more obvious plot elements breaching its shell. Personally I also believe expectation has something to do with it, while THE DARK KNIGHT RISES was being compared to THE DARK KNIGHT, MAN OF STEEL was mostly being compared to SUPERMAN RETURNS which obviously wasn’t as well received as THE DARK KNIGHT. I actually think SUPERMAN RETURNS is a stronger film but I think I’ve pissed off enough comic book fans already today so I won’t bother getting into that.



To help understand this point better check out Film Crit Hulk’s other phenomenal article called THE IMPORTANCE OF DRAMATIZING A CHARACTER in which he highlights everything MAN OF STEEL does wrong as far as story, one of the biggest being the “show, don’t tell” rule, which I found to be a huge issue in PACIFIC RIM as well. All the characters in Del Toro’s film are one-dimensional cutouts that tell you how they feel rather than show you how you they feel, and most of the characters in MAN OF STEEL did the same thing. Dialogue throughout both of these films was mostly used to help explain things to the audience rather than being used for character development which is just plain lazy. A good way to avoid this is to write a dialogue free movie and see how much sense it makes. If you need dialogue to explain your story than it’s probably convoluted (though there are exceptions to this rule).



2013 was a rather interesting year for comic book movies, given that IRON MAN 3 was hated by fans and MAN OF STEEL was loved. I think this perfectly illustrates the issue. It’s no secret that IRON MAN 3 purposefully deviates from the source material, and boy has it taken a beating for doing so. Unfortunately this jolt midway through the story upset fans so much that they can’t see the film for what it is, a great story with actual character arcs. Shane Black is an extremely talented writer/director and IRON MAN 3 is one of the strongest films Marvel has ever turned out, and yet one of the most hated only because it wasn’t loyal to the source material. I’m not saying that we should make every comic book villain be revealed as some stupid actor, but that letting talented filmmakers have creativity can actually result in better-crafted comic book movies that push the boundaries of these characters in ways we’ve never seen.



The biggest issue here is that giving fans what they want usually means sacrificing story for convoluted plot, which actually wouldn’t be a huge deal if fans could see past the cloud of fan service and realize what they’re watching isn't a good story. Herein lies the danger -- now that audiences can’t tell the difference between a good and bad story what’s to stop lazy filmmakers from taking over your favorite franchise, dishing out some fan service and cashing in on it? Nothing. The reason these comic book characters resonate so well is because their stories are fascinating, and the fact that people not only settle with something like MAN OF STEEL but consider it one of the best comic book movies ever while picking IRON MAN 3 apart limb-from-limb is just depressing. Though telling a great story and pleasing fans is the ideal situation, with comic book movies coming out the wazoo over the next few years I would prefer those filmmakers follow in Shane Black’s footsteps and deliver us a great story, even if it results in fan backlash.

If we continue on this path the future of comic book movies is grim indeed.

Anyway guys that’s enough from me! I told you guys once before as someone who has studied film and writing that my opinions might not be well accepted here and I think this will be a good example. I implore some of you to see reason and at least have a healthy discussion below, rather than a “flame war”. That being said I’m interested in what some of you think.





Johnny Depp Takes Aim At Dreck Hollywood Movies And Compares Studio Bosses To Glorified Accountants
Related:

Johnny Depp Takes Aim At "Dreck" Hollywood Movies And Compares Studio Bosses To "Glorified Accountants"

ComicBookMovie.com's Easter Gift Guide 2024: Essentials From Hot Toys, JAKKS Pacific!, LEGO, And More!
Recommended For You:

ComicBookMovie.com's Easter Gift Guide 2024: Essentials From Hot Toys, JAKKS Pacific!, LEGO, And More!

DISCLAIMER: ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and... [MORE]

ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
HOTSHOT
HOTSHOT - 9/21/2013, 2:26 AM
Good article and all but the real reason behind ironman 3's hate isn't just that it deviates from the source material but also that the story is too comedic at times, Tony get's over his problems the second the plot demands it. That twist was god awful. Imagine Dark Knight ending with Joker going: "Hello, I'm Heath Ledger. I'm an actor hired to play Joker who isn't real." Then Bane shows up and goes:"I AM THE JOKER!"
Crappy right?

trailermusic
trailermusic - 9/21/2013, 2:27 AM
and so I guess this is part of the reason why they make DC Animated movies, films that are pretty much direct adaptations of the comics themselves.

Brainiac13
Brainiac13 - 9/21/2013, 3:03 AM
Nice Article.

Change is good when translating comic to film but to completely change or damage the rep of the character is wrong. Think about the GA but please the fans aswell.

Enjoyed reading this. Well done.

NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 9/21/2013, 4:07 AM
I didn't read it, but I'm glad this isn't intentional flame bait. However it doesn't matter if it is intentional or not, flame bait is flame bait.
maninfinesuit
maninfinesuit - 9/21/2013, 4:40 AM
Surprisingly insightful, and I agree with nine tenths of what you said here. Nothing further to add because I have a train to catch.
NBAfanaddict
NBAfanaddict - 9/21/2013, 4:59 AM
Really enjoyed this. I'm writing a similar argument on source material, and I agree with you. Sometimes following the script, so to speak, weakens the film's story.

Well done good sir!
Kobe Reaction
aresww3
aresww3 - 9/21/2013, 7:38 AM
@Everyone - You shouldn´t make Comicbookmovies for fans, but you should make them because you are a fan. That is the problem.

A fan of the superman mythos would not think that people calling Superman Superman is silly. Or, a man could disguise his true identity just by wearing glasses is silly. When you enter that territory of thinking, you should know you are not the right person for a superman film. plain and simple.
aresww3
aresww3 - 9/21/2013, 8:19 AM
Good article
monsterswin
monsterswin - 9/21/2013, 8:39 AM
Well I must be in the minority then because I didn't like IM3 OR MOS or Nolan's trilogy. You can CERTAINLY have an entertaining story and be somewhat faithful to the source material. Entertaining is what comics used to be. They were fun, and the underlaying character stuff and drama was icing on the cake.

Nowadays it is the reverse and I for one have grown tired of it and movies without that crap are my favorites. The Avengers, IM 1, parts of Thor and Cap were great. NOT great movies. That's never been the point and for you to say that Nolan has a way of turning his convoluted plot into human drama? I don't see it. Nolan has always had an odd coldness and disconnect to all of his movies. Inception for sure. Drama? Thanks but I will take the very simple drama of Captain America over Nolan's horseshit "drama."

I DO see on the horizon though that Hollywood will turn these films into plotless "let's put in this fan service bit" and keep collecting the money for it, but so far Marvel Studios has tried to stay away (for the most part) that stuff. WB's on the other hand? I don't get what's happening over there.
Reni
Reni - 9/21/2013, 8:39 AM
Well at least this is a more thought out article than the rest although i strongly disagree with things like Iron Man 3 having a great story and character arc and Man of Steel being a shallow weak film that pleases the 'fans'.

"one-dimensional cutouts that tell you how they feel rather than show you how you they feel..."

That's exactly what they did in Iron Man 3 just in a more clever way. What's the main point of the film? Make Tony Stark grow as a character. Do we see that? No. Scenes like a man crying repeated times and then solving his issues that quickly is not character development, though it seems like it and may led people to believe it is(kind of like in The Avengers when you have Captain America as a leader now because he fights a couple of drones and then instills 'respect' into some random police officer). I, at least, didn't feel bad for Tony or got that sense of him being troubled, the only thing all that crying, and 'oh, god what's happening to me' attitude did was make me laugh a bit more, which did go along with the whole comedic feel of the film.
foulketheyankees
foulketheyankees - 9/21/2013, 8:42 AM
i like this. change is good if it's smartly carried out. change for change's sake, isn't. if the essence of a character or story is there, that's fine. i think the real annoyance for many is that we've waited a long time to see these stories or characters played out, and we sometimes simply want a motion picture OF the comics. not always gonna work.
Mrsinister
Mrsinister - 9/21/2013, 8:57 AM
If you think iron man 3 was a good movie with a great story then you don't know what a good story is. They made all characters act like tony stark. Too many characters were cracking jokes. You say that they should SHOW emotion? How about when pepper Potts "died" tony showed no emotion. I mean NO EMOTION. And the mandarin twist was the biggest let down of them all. I think the creative team behind iron man 3 did a horrible job. Comic books have a lot of emotion because the creative teams behind them are passionate about these characters. There's no reason why the movies can't do the same thing
Dmon
Dmon - 9/21/2013, 8:59 AM
My problem with Iron-Man 3 was not the twist I just thought the plot was boring and full of holes. Also the fact Tony's suits kept falling off through the whole movie, I was waiting for him to get some decent armor and it never happened.
BIANCONERI
BIANCONERI - 9/21/2013, 9:17 AM
This is a great article! Everyone loves the comics but they are inspiration for the movies, not the exact script! Well done, I agree with everything said.
Reni
Reni - 9/21/2013, 9:22 AM
I also don't get this whole 'fan service' thing. It isn't about the fans, these are hollywood blockbusters, they NEED to make a ton of money and execs are aware of that. It's just that some of these movies actually take some parts and references from comic books which may or may not make the film look better in a fan's eyes, but in the end, all these films care about is their market.

Marvel Studios films, as of now, obviously have the bigger one since their demographic not only includes 'fans' or teen/adult public but most importantly, kids. DC films (with the exception of Green Lantern) and other companies that produce comic book related movies have a different approach, the themes their movies deal with (or at least try to) and the overall crafting and execution simply does not attract the younger audience that much so they try to gain more of the mature audience.

It isn't fan service though, it never will be. More audience means more profit and that means the studio making more of them in the same line. If Funny Man was this successful, it won't stop them from making at least one more in the same way.
Dmon
Dmon - 9/21/2013, 9:30 AM
Man of Steel made more money then Iron-Man 1 and 2, Captain America, and Thor. Also the GA score for MoS is the same as Thor and higher then Captain America. Iron-Man 3 made so much money because it was the 3rd in a successful franchise and it being the first movie after the Avengers the GA was still on their high from that. The real test will be how well Thor does. If Thor 2 does not make as much as Man of Steel what will you Marvel Fanboys say then?
DVonShakari
DVonShakari - 9/21/2013, 9:36 AM
I think that $$$ has been too much of a motivating factor when it comes to the success of CBMs. Sure you want to have a nice budget to create a look that should be a healthy balance of drama/action/special effects...I think a lot of studios, directors, and producers get the balance out of whack and the movie feels uneven or even forced in certain areas.
Dmon
Dmon - 9/21/2013, 9:37 AM
Don't get me wrong I love all the MCU movies with the exception of IM3. I am just sick of all the MoS bashing on this site and all the Marvel Fanboys goose stepping to anything Marvel Studios produces.
Reni
Reni - 9/21/2013, 9:44 AM
Some MCU movies are decent. IM3 really is divisive, i don't think it's worse than IM2 but it really is down there in the same line as Thor or Captain America.

@Dmon I guess it is the cool thing to hate that movie now, heh? Just like it happened (or happens) to TDKR.
DVonShakari
DVonShakari - 9/21/2013, 9:46 AM
you can tell when a director is totally all about making the movie action packed because the drama in it seems forced or unnecessary....Transformer Movies...

when the focus is on the big action sequences, special effects, and trying to stuff in a lot of characters at once, the plot may suffer and its hard to pull off any type of "realism" so they resort to making the dialogue light and funny...Avengers...Iron Man movies...Green Lantern...

with the dialogue light and comedic, the viewers attention is diverted from anything that will make sense in realistic terms...

This is why TDK trilogy seemed to have such a realistic feel to it. It was because it was not loaded with campy humor but humor that fit the tone of the movie. But it was not a lazy attempt to use humor to cover up lazy writing...Thor...

Sometimes focusing on the action leaves little room for the dramatic scenes to be taken as seriously or sincerely as they should and the drama, at times seems forced. This does not help with a poorly written script on top of that....MoS

Then you have all of us fans (like myself) just finding excuses to type sh*t, make others read it, and after all that not even give a sh*t about what you're writing or what anyone else thinks.....

DVonShakari
DVonShakari - 9/21/2013, 9:57 AM
"It wasn’t until Bryan Singer’s X-MEN and Sam Raimi’s SPIDER-MAN that people finally understood the potential of comic book movies."

WTF???

That's crazy talk my good friend....those "people" only saw the $$$ to be made from comic book movies. That's about the only potential that they saw.

Don't forget: Superman the Movie, Superman II, Batman, Batman Returns, Crow, and Blade....
Minghagz
Minghagz - 9/21/2013, 9:58 AM
IM3 overall as a movie was not good. Ya, as a comic fan I didn't appreciate the twist but also as a movie watcher I thought the twist was poorly executed. It disappoints me because I've loved every MCU film to date and I appreciate the ambition of marvel studios for bringing us this amazing cinematic universe, however, IM3 lacked in several ways
MrCameron
MrCameron - 9/21/2013, 10:04 AM
Very good article. In the end, Good Story > Fan Service. That's why I perferred IM3 over MoS.
Lhornbk
Lhornbk - 9/21/2013, 10:12 AM
Okay, I'm sorry, but either you're just not paying attention, confused, or just stupid. Your basic premise is kind of correct, CBMs should not be made to try to just please fans (actually they shouldn't try to please fanboys, who are different from fans.) But most of your examples are totally wrong, and quite frankly anyone who bases an editorial off someone else's article either can't think for himself or is just being lazy.

The Star Wars prequels were entirely designed to please fans? Really? You actually believe that? I'm sorry, but that may be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read. Have you not ever paid any attention to Star Wars fanboys' complaints about those movies? Anakin starts out as a kid-fanboys hated that. Jar Jar Binks-fans hated him. Anakin is a petulent teenager in the 2nd movie-fans hated that. I could go on, heck I could write a whole article. If the prequels had been written for the fans, Anakin would have become Darth Vader in the 2nd movie and the 3rd movie would have been mainly Darth Vader, in his suit, hunting down and killing Jedi. That's what fanboys wanted (some wanted Darth Vader killing Jedi in 2 movies), so no,they were definitely not designed to just please fans. If you want to argue that the stories weren't that good that's fine (I actually think they were pretty good, although I can understand some complaining about the somewhat convoluted political plot), but don't try to make them fit into this argument, because any problems they had definitely did NOT come from Lucas pandering to fanboys.

MoS isn't really that good of an example either. You must not have been paying attention to complaints about it. The way his father dies-most fanboys hate it. All the destruction-lots of fanboys hate it. Superman not saving civilians-fanboys hated it. Supermen breaking Zod's neck-lots of fanboys hated it. (*wah* "that's not my Superman, he would be just awesome and find a way to save the people without killing" *wah*). About the only part of that movie that you can say might have been designed specifically for fans is there was a fight, with Superman throwing punches, since the lack of action was a complaint about Superman Returns. And I thought the stories in TIH, Thor, and Capt. America were good too.

You are right about fanboys hating Iron Man 3, and it was a good movie. I personally enjoyed MoS more, but I liked both, and I don't care about source material very much at all. I will definitely agree that allowing fanboys to dictate what is in a CBM would make for a terrible movie, but I don't think any movie has done that yet (Green Lantern might have partly suffered from trying to stick too close to comics to please fanboys, but I'm not sure.) But, I do think it's okay to have your audience in mind while writing a movie (general audiences, not just fanboys). These are popcorn movies, if they a good story with a fair amount of action, they'll be good enough for me and probably most general audiences. And while I don't want films for just fanboys, I don't want movies that are written mainly for critics and intellectuals and so-called writing experts either.
Reni
Reni - 9/21/2013, 10:22 AM
You know typing in caps does not make your 'opinion' more valid, right?
Lhornbk
Lhornbk - 9/21/2013, 10:25 AM
Oh, and just because you studied screenwriting and film making doesn't make your opinion about what makes a good story more valid or correct than anyone else's opinion. Why? Because ultimately it is just that, opinion, not fact (they did teach you the difference between opinion and fact, right?) I have an IQ of 150, but that doesn't suddenly make my opinions facts. And my girlfriend has a Masters of Arts in English and teaches English both in high school and at a junior college. I would put her expertise about what makes a good story up against yours anytime, and she loved MoS.
Dmon
Dmon - 9/21/2013, 10:29 AM
@JediPhilosopher Oh please your whole problem with the film was that Superman killed. Superman has killed in the comics and killed Zod in Superman 2. At least in MoS he was defending people and was emotionally shaken up right afterwords unlike Superman 2 where he had no reason to kill Zod and just laughed after doing it.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
View Recorder