GAME OF THRONES Director Discusses That Scene From Last Night's Ep

GAME OF THRONES Director Discusses <i>That</i> Scene From Last Night's Ep

HBO's Game Of Thrones has never exactly shied away from controversy, but a scene from last night's "Breaker Of Chains" between Jamie and Cersei Lannister has caused major hullabaloo around the net today. Click on to find out what the episode's director has to say about it.

The "Song Of Ice And Fire" novels by George R.R. Martin are full of sex and violence as is, but HBO's tv adaptation of the books has actually managed to inject quite a bit more into its 3-and-a-bit seasons. One scene in particular caused quite a stir: Early on in the first book, Khal Drogo and his new bride Dany have sex for the first time. She's nervous - terrified even - but it is most definitely consensual. In the first episode of the show however, it is made very clear that Drogo is basically taking what is his and raping her. It was an odd decision, because this is a man Dany eventually grows to love - and that's a lot easier to buy in the book.

George R.R. Martin Responds To That Controversial Game of Thrones Scene

Well now HBO has done it again. On last night's episode, which is titled "Breaker Of Chains", Jamie Lannister forces himself on his sister Cersei in Joffrey's tomb. This plays out much the same as it did in the book with one crucial difference: Yes, you guessed it, on the page it was consensual. Now there has been debate online all day about this, with some reasoning that although Cersei initially resists, by the end she relents and has consensual sex with her brother next to the body of their dead son (see, not so creepy after all then!). The episode's director Alex Graves sees it that way too, and explains why when quizzed about it by Vulture.

"It’s my cut of the scene. The consensual part of it was that she wraps her legs around him, and she’s holding on to the table, clearly not to escape but to get some grounding in what’s going on. And also, the other thing that I think is clear before they hit the ground is she starts to make out with him. The big things to us that were so important, and that hopefully were not missed, is that before he rips her undergarment, she’s way into kissing him back. She’s kissing him aplenty."

What do you guys make of the scene? Sound off in the usual place and check out the full interview at the link below.
Posted By:
Mark Cassidy
Member Since 11/9/2008
Filed Under "Fantasy" 4/21/2014 Source: Vulture
DISCLAIMER: is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and... [MORE]
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ruadh - 4/21/2014, 3:00 PM
I didn't really see it as a full rape though. They're essentially a couple, and it's not about forcing sex on her. It was about something else, and sex was essentially how he's breaking through to her. About their son's death, and also her distance from him since he returned.
Satanistpanther - 4/21/2014, 3:02 PM
[frick] the queen beside the dead king.... shit show
ScorpioRisin - 4/21/2014, 3:05 PM
People are exaggerating, but honestly, this just seems like Dungeons and Dragons [frick]ing shit up for no reason again. It was clearly consensual in the books, and the directing and dialogue of the scene didn't really help to convey that. Specially the dialogue. Dropping the "stop"s at the end would have sufficed to make it clear that it was consensual.
danield222 - 4/21/2014, 3:09 PM
In the book she wants the D and she constantly says "Do me brother, do me my sweet brother!"
I honestly think they handled it way better it the show, because at least in the show they know what they doing is wrong, but in the books they just really want to do it.
aRandomSinisterClone - 4/21/2014, 3:12 PM
"that scene?" oh you mean the sister raping on my dead incest born kids body scene. @danield222, that does sound familiar from the books. but theres alot of filthy lines from all 5 books.
HulkOnion - 4/21/2014, 3:12 PM
dafuq we talkin bout rape what have we come to
Bl00dwerK - 4/21/2014, 3:19 PM
Maybe there was a reason for this scene. Ever think about that?
DEATHbyEXILE - 4/21/2014, 3:20 PM
danield222 - 4/21/2014, 3:22 PM
Here's that page from the book:

She kissed him. A light kiss, the merest brush of her lips on his, but he could feel her tremble as he slid his arms around her. “I am not whole without you.”

There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened for his tongue. “No,” she said weakly when his lips moved down her neck, “not here. The septons…”

“The Others can take the septons.” He kissed her again, kissed her silent, kissed her until she moaned. Then he knocked the candles aside and lifted her up onto the Mother’s altar, pushing up her skirts and the silken shift beneath. She pounded on his chest with feeble fists, murmuring about the risk, the danger, about their father, about the septons, about the wrath of gods. He never heard her. He undid his breeches and climbed up and pushed her bare white legs apart. One hand slid up her thigh and underneath her smallclothes. When he tore them away, he saw that her moon’s blood was on her, but it made no difference.

“Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.” She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei’s heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined.
Klone - 4/21/2014, 3:25 PM
I've read some extracts from the books. GRRM sure likes his sex and penis descriptions :P
Thythoutrust - 4/21/2014, 3:25 PM
I've read the most disgusting shit.
If a girl says ''no'', ''stop'', ''enough'' or doesn't want to, or is forced to want to, or even if you ''convince her'', it's rape. Whether she's your girlfriend, your wife or your goddamned sister, it's rape.
Klone - 4/21/2014, 3:26 PM

In the sense that they are trying to convince themselves what they did at alright? Because if you mean that, no, some simply don't give a shit about the person they are tormenting and know it is wrong.
rebellion - 4/21/2014, 3:26 PM
oh come one. are people forgetting how she was resisting in the books? she was hitting him on his chest asking him to stop. then, when he actually penetrated her, she started saying 'yes'. here, the scene was cut short but still... even in the books, i thought it was a bit rapey. why are people making such a big deal about this is beyond me. it's fiction after all.
RorMachine - 4/21/2014, 3:28 PM
Bl00dwerk , of course. It's possible this was done for a reason and they're planning on maing it a part of Jamie's arc..but the Drogo/Dany thing never went anywhere did it? Everything played out exactly the same after, and all changing a sex scene to a rape scene did for the show was to make it harder for us to buy her falling in love with him.
sKeemAn - 4/21/2014, 3:29 PM

Not only did he take her in front of their dead child, he did it on the perod.

Klone - 4/21/2014, 3:36 PM

It is weird when you see some scenes that seem utterly normal or barely noticeable and then book readers are rallying together in rage. You know that scene where Stannis burns people in episode 2? I wasn't exactly expecting that backlash when reading comments.
SauronsBANE - 4/21/2014, 3:36 PM
Geez, that director is clueless. Yes, that's maybe what he was going for, but it clearly didn't come out that way on-screen. It's mind-boggling for him, the cameramen, the editors, and literally everyone on set to NOT think that this would be perceived as rape.

It was rape, plain and simple. Yelling "No, no! It's not right!" over and over again and then having Jaime respond with "I don't care", and then ending the scene like that, makes it pretty clear it was rape. And even worse, the rapist is the same guy who previously went out of his way to make sure that a woman he hardly knew, Brienne, wouldn't get raped and abused.

It's just utterly tone-deaf to the character as presented in the show. I haven't read the books so I won't get sucked into whether THAT was rape or not. In the show, it was clearly rape.

And I get that he's in an incestuous relationship and pushed a little kid out a window and is a complicated guy with conflicting morals...but rape is just such a sensitive topic, why throw that into a wildly popular show when you don't need to? Do we really need more reminders that Jaime isn't a good guy? I'm pretty sure having consenting sex with your sister in the same holy room as their dead, incestuous spawn Joffrey makes it pretty clear that he's no hero. No need for the rape...unless this ends up becoming a bigger development that is actually acknowledged and developed later on. I kind of doubt it though, based on what the show did with Drogo and Dany. We'll have to see.
Klone - 4/21/2014, 3:37 PM
But yes, I interpreted it as rape as well. Moments of the scene seemed consensual, for perhaps a second or two, but the way the scene ended with Cersi still telling Jaime to stop made me view it as rape. So the director has failed completely at his job. Though the rest of the scenes of this episode, especially Mereen, make up for it.
SauronsBANE - 4/21/2014, 3:40 PM
Yeah I know what you mean MAK. When I first saw this scene, I figured that's what happened in the books and so I figured they knew what they were doing with Jaime's character. Now that I hear that it was a bit different...I can kind of understand the book readers getting up in arms about it.

But wow really? Ha, I didn't even know about the backlash to Stannis burning those people.
NoPhucksGiven - 4/21/2014, 3:40 PM
Normally I would say do you Jamie I aint even mad but digging out your sister is still weird as [frick]. Cersei brings out the worst of jamie. He needs to distance himself from his sisters [foo foo].
Klone - 4/21/2014, 3:41 PM

If you type in "Stannis Character" into Google, one of the top suggestions will have the word "Assassination" afterwords :P They really aren't happy with Stannis' treatment. I still find the letter scene in Season 2 funny.
SauronsBANE - 4/21/2014, 3:47 PM
Haha I knew Stannis is a bit more unlikable in the show than in the books, but wow I didn't think book readers were THAT upset! And I'm wracking my brain, but for the life of me, I can't remember which letter scene you're talking about in season 2.
sKeemAn - 4/21/2014, 3:48 PM
It was rape, she said no. Even in the books its rape, whether she enjoyed it or wanted it after the fact doesn't matter.
danield222 - 4/21/2014, 3:50 PM
MetahumanAbominationKlone :
"So the director has failed completely at his job."

Not really, the screenwriters wrote down all the "Nos" and "Don'ts" and even the scene, how she behaves. They, in the first place, shouldn't have give Cersei that dialogue and it would have been completely different.
McGee - 4/21/2014, 3:53 PM
SuperPickle - 4/21/2014, 3:59 PM
I've never watched this show. I've been told so many times I should, and I was on the verge of starting it. And AGAIN, it's its own worst PR. I'll pass. This show just seems like it's about a bunch of shit I have no interest in seeing. Perfect for juvenile perverts.
Negrotigre - 4/21/2014, 4:01 PM
They kill other characters and sometimes basically sell them into slavery. Why is this scene so outrageous to some people? The director shouldn't have explained anything. Let he art stand as it is without justification or explanation.
Ramiel - 4/21/2014, 4:01 PM
Are people really making a big deal about this?
ChiliConCarney - 4/21/2014, 4:06 PM
I get what he's saying and I could see that Cersei was, after some advanced persuasion techniques from Jamie, accepting of his advances. On the whole (*giggle*), it did look like it was a lot more forced on Jamie's part than portrayed in the books.

@ McGee

High five!
ruadh - 4/21/2014, 4:08 PM
So...are people upset that it's rape? Or...sister rape? Or...sister rape by their dead incest son's body? Or...that they changed it from the books? I'm unclear on this.

And if it's simply the that finally the line for these people? Cutting off a guy's genitals is acceptable, all the murders, betrayals, child killings, etc. But a woman resists her lover a bit, and this show has gone too far.
ruadh - 4/21/2014, 4:10 PM
Again, to me, it's not a rape scene. She resists, yes, but that's more a part of the greater issue between them as a couple. She's been resisting him since he got back, emotionally AND physically. It took this, the death of their son, to get him to yes, force her to let him in. Literally, and figuratively. She was closing herself off completely, not just from him, but he knows he's the one person she needs to be there for her.

And yeah, it's kinda sick to have sex by a dead body. But it's actually a naturally thing when you lose someone you love to want to get it on, to feel alive, and it's a possibly bizarre way to cope, but it happens. Just..not usually RIGHT by the body. But, you know, they can't really be choosers given they're siblings etc.
sKeemAn - 4/21/2014, 4:10 PM

I like mine better

Prime - 4/21/2014, 4:12 PM
This turned into quite something....
ScorpioRisin - 4/21/2014, 4:23 PM
That's an ignorant assumption if I've ever read one.
RorMachine - 4/21/2014, 4:30 PM
Obviously the rape scene isn't the problem! Is that not clear from the article? It's the reason it was altered from the book, ostensibly changing Jamie's character arc completely. Why change a consensual scene to a rape scene? They may have plans to address it..but as I said, they didn't when it happened with Drogo and Dany.
RichardBoldly - 4/21/2014, 4:31 PM

A bit?

SuperPickle - 4/21/2014, 4:38 PM
Murder, rape, incest, infanticide, and tons of gratuitous sex and nudity to gain viewers.

And it wasn't an assumption. You assume when you don't know. I do know. That's not an assumption. It's a juvenile and perverted show.
SuperPickle - 4/21/2014, 4:41 PM
The scene being discussed here for example. Why change it to a rape if not to make it controversial and "hot"? Sex and violence sells. They'll juice it up however they can. I'm surprised they didn't have a necrophiliac threesome with the dead kid too. THAT'D get people talking. And more boobs. And maybe some anal with a broadsword.
SauronsBANE - 4/21/2014, 4:42 PM
@ruadh, I can't believe anyone has to spell this out, but the reason this is upsetting people is because:

A: As Ror just said, it's apparently an unnecessary change from the books that is way out of character and really messes up future developments.

B: No matter what happened in the books, this is STILL an extremely odd plot point that is still really out of character from how he's been established on the show.

C: Rape has and always will be a ridiculously sensitive subject in media (and yes, this is undoubtedly rape, despite any silly rationalizations. I honestly have no idea how anyone can perceive this scene to be anything other than what it shows, despite what the director THINKS it showed) and Game of Thrones specifically has a history of throwing in rape, sexual abuse, and other unsavory things purely for the shock value.

Rape doesn't automatically make things more interesting or more deep, despite what Hollywood would have you believe. It needs to be in a proper context that actually opens the door and adds something to the proceedings. In this example, it really didn't. That could possibly change depending on next week's episode, but to pretend that this isn't a big deal, or that it's not even rape...? Yeah, that's where you lose me completely.
TomSolo - 4/21/2014, 4:42 PM
Who watches THIS show and was offended? I haven't read the books, but I have watched this show since day one. First, these are not real people and never were. If this was a "based on" kind of thing, then fine. This happened to someone and the viewer is watching a re-enacting of horrible events and might be mortified. But it's not. So someone watching is appalled that this pretend character is possibly being forced to engage in "gland-to-gland combat" by her pretend brother in front of her dead pretend son? Weren't these siblings depicted "feeding the cat" in the very first episode? And didn't one of them kill a kid (well, try to), with the other being pretty much okay with it? How many folks have died terrible deaths by Cersi's manipulations and/or inbred kid? Now in the 4th season, when her brother decides to "take it out in trade" right next to their dead, incest-conceived love child (who, by the way, HORRIBLY MURDERED lots of people and forced others to murder AND rape... all while being a kid) and someone is concerned that she might not be okay with this? Forgive me if this is a non-issue. There really are ZERO morals in this show, so anyone being concerned with such things ought not to watch this show.
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