Editorial: About the Avengers and Rises

Editorial: About the Avengers and Rises

An unbiased comment from a long-time comic book fan and movie admirer.

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By deanwilkins - 1/11/2012
This is a purely unbiased article written by someone who has really just had enough of what's been going on in this site. Having said that, I love the site and appreciate the hard work that goes into maintaining it.

When the polls were happening a number of months ago, some of us were upset because Batman won virtually every match he was a part of. It didn't matter if he was fighting Daredevil, Spider-Man, Thor or Galactus. He won every fight. Worse, he won by a landslide of votes. Whether that is right or wrong is another matter. If you really think Batman can defeat Thor, what hope is there for you?
Now, every time an article mentions anything relating to Avengers, Batman, Spider-Man or possibly just every single article... there is Avengers bashing by Batman fans.

Stop. Back-up.

I'm writing this because I love cbm's, just like you do. I have no preference when it comes to Marvel, DC or the other guys. I like them all equally. I'm pumped for Superman just as much as I am pumped for Amazing Spider-Man.

So why the article? Because of all the bashing that's going on. Somehow, Avengers is in competition with Dark Knight Rises. One is the third part of a trilogy. The other is the culmination of many films all coming together into the natural evolution of those storylines. But it is a stand-alone. Other than the fact that they are cbm's, they have almost nothing else in common.
I want to go on the record and state that it's okay for both films to be good. It's okay. We can enjoy them both.

So why the Avengers hatred? Sure, some of you are for it, but others are not. There are even articles on here (or possibly just one) which criticize the Avengers and make it out like the film will be a disappointment. Worse, there are comments how Avengers will cause Cap 2 and Thor 2 and possibly the others to be delayed. Damn you Avengers! How could you?
What is the point of these articles? To flat out bash Avengers without being too overt in doing so. To cause fear and skepticism that the film will be a disappointment. To rain on it's parade, so to speak. To encourage hatred of it.
Why is this happening? I think I know the reason. But let me tell you why it's NOT happening.
Avengers has shown incredible footage. The actors are all amazing in their roles (from what we've seen so far in the other films). Joss Whedon has a passion for the film and is heavily invested in it. There is no tangible proof to suggest anything is wrong with the film. Complaining about Cap's costume doesn't count. One costume does not make or break a movie. Unless it's Catwoman...
So why is it happening?
I believe it's because Dark Knight Rises has not delivered the way Avengers has.
1. Bane does not resemble his comic book counterpart in the slightest way.
2. His voice is problematic. It is. If people are complaining, there's a reason.
3. Christian Bale does not look like Batman. He doesn't have the muscle. He doesn't have the voice. If not for Two-Face and Joker from the last film, he would not have been able to carry the movie himself. Just look at the first film which many did not enjoy (myself included). You can't possibly tell me the sequel was amazing because of Bale. He just bounced off Two-Face and Joker.
4. The trailers were just okay. Nothing too special. They're probably saving the good parts for the next trailer, or maybe just for the film. Either way... they're holding back. And the prologue was disappointing. All three left me feeling an uneasy dread. And I wanted to love all of it. I still do.

I think the reason for all the Avengers bashing is because people are afraid that Rises will not be good. That it won't deliver. And comparing it to the previous film... this one was almost doomed from the start.

As a resolution to this article, I want to suggest the following: Let's accept each film for what it is. Tossing around your fears and apprehensions because you don't like the look of Thor's nose, or hate the mask Cap wears are unfounded. In other words, stop nit-picking. If an article is about Batman, keep it about Batman. If it's about Avengers, why do I need to read how much better Batman will be? They are not the same movie. Let them both be good without tossing around your biases. You love Batman? He's the best? Nobody can touch him? Fine. Then avoid the Avengers articles. Leave the film alone!

I'm just sick of all the unfounded bashing. Jealousy because JLA never happened, or because Green Lantern sucked, or because Batman appears (to some) to have faults is just petty. I'm sure both movies will be good. Let's try to be a little more positive.

(But grif, keep being yourself. I actually go looking for your comments in each article I read. Thanks for the laughs.)
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20 Comments
Supes17 - 1/11/2012, 6:36 PM
Makes sense to me

but who doesn't love a friendly competition?
Keeps things interesting:p
Spidey91 - 1/11/2012, 7:34 PM
I don't know if I agree with you in some points you made,but I can see your logic.
deanwilkins - 1/11/2012, 7:55 PM
Thanks. I'm just a little annoyed with the Avengers bashing when it looks like it could be such a good movie. To me, it feels like Batman fans are threatened... but why should they be? Nolan is amazing and the last film was one of the top CBM's ever.
skullpup - 1/11/2012, 8:41 PM
Agreed. Good article.
MoonDoggyX - 1/11/2012, 9:12 PM
Just because someone doesn't praise the avengers doesn't make them nolanite, dc fanboys or whatever! In fact, as unbiased as u claim to be, you bash DC properties and praise marvel through the whole article. Come on, dude, who ya tryin to fool here? As long as we are respectful to eachother, what's wrong with opposing views...? Its o

I agree that there is no reason to bash the movie yet(and I don't think there ever will be). But as a fan i am personally disappointed with the Avengers thus far because we know virtually nothing more about the movie than we knew after cap and its been 6 months. They haven't given us any reason to think the movie will actually be good yet. The trailer just showed us more of what we already know, shield, the avengers, loki in a movie together... all new news from the movie has come in the form of movie and speculation. That's hardly anything to get really excited about. So as of right now, I do not believe the avenger is living up to the hype, am a troll for that???
MoonDoggyX - 1/11/2012, 9:14 PM
Sorry, that "rumor and speculation"...
Jefferys - 1/11/2012, 10:31 PM
yossarian , agreed. I love it when everyone proves each other wrong, or someone brings up something that I didn't know before. It makes life so much more interesting. But then there's those times when you see those idiots who just get a little too excited and ruin the fun. Come on though, you can't please everyone.

Honestly, I have this sense that there will be bashing on this article, which, in this case shouldn't be. If a guy gives his opinions, he shouldn't be shot down but my rather lifted up for having the courage to actually give his opinion and not be afraid of the Nolanites and Marvel Supremests or whatever Supes17 calls them.

Oh and, I feel that fanboys will come and most likely bash this poor article.
LoudNoises - 1/11/2012, 10:33 PM
I don't really understand why people get so sick of the Avengers/TDKR bashing. To be honest, it's fun to read the comments when there is a heated debate going on. Who doesn't like a little drama? Of course I prefer it when the debate has a point and it's not just completely insulting the fans of either movie, but even that doesn't bother me enough to throw a big fuss about it. I'd guess that most of the people who are being intentially insulting to one fan base or the other only do so in order to stir things up. Besides, everyone knows deep down that the 1997 movie "Steel" staring Shaquille O'Neal was the best CBM of all time.
buttercup - 1/12/2012, 12:55 AM
I find all the AVENGERS bashing annoying too, but also a bit reassuring. It betrays the horrible lurking suspicion in their minds that TDKR won't be the greatest movie ever and then they lash out with all this vitriol. Amusing.
Frogman - 1/12/2012, 1:30 AM
I see more TDKR bashing than Avengers. In fact the Avengers article you mentioned about pushing back Cap and Thor 2 was saying that Avengers will be a billion dollar franchise... hardly bashing. And as MoonDoggy stated you claim to be unbiased then attack DC/TDKR. There is plenty of TDKR bashing and if someone dares to say they think it looks good or they like what they've seen there is an onslaught of hatred and name calling. I frequently see comments about TDKR on The Avengers articles, and yes it is bashing it.

In other words, if you're going to claim to be unbiased, present a balanced view and don't rant about how much you love the Avengers and that TDKR won't live up to expectations because you've ridiculed your entire argument.
CuteAsian - 1/12/2012, 4:09 AM
how can you claim to have an unbiased view when clearly most of your 'vitriol' is directed towards tdkr? besides it's kinda arrogant to claim that tdkr fans are attacking avengers just because they feel tdkr is not living up to its hype.
MoonDoggyX - 1/12/2012, 5:39 AM
It is definitely dumb to bash a movie before anyone has seen it, but isn't it equally dumb to praise a movie we know almost nothing about. Like most people on this site, I've been waiting what seems my whole life for something like this whether it be jla or avengers. But what I want more than anything is for these movies to be good, not just made. I'm not just gonna bow down and hand Marvel the CBM crown just for having the balls(which is actually very commendable) to attempt an avengers movie, after 5 movies of build up and all the hype, they had better deliver. And we haven't really seen anything yet to make us think that they have. Though I hope that changes soon. We have as much info on man of steel than we do the avengers and that doesn't come out until 2013...lol
MrReese - 1/12/2012, 5:47 AM
@MoonDoggy totally agree bout the unbiased article

@tea right on!! that's exactly how i c it
95 - 1/12/2012, 11:13 AM
I'm glad you could vent. I see that you also had the time to list your opinion on TDKR's "flaws". You seem to forget to mention anything about TDKR bashing. Looks like everyone has figured out that you are in fact full of shit with your "unbiased" stance. I bash The Avengers because it's being overpraised. Those fans have an early ejaculation problem. And early ejaculation is a sad issue. Back on topic, people bash The Avengers, those fans bash The Dark Knight Rises, then I bash The Avengers, and then those fans bash The Dark Knight Rises. So, I guess that means The Amazing Spider-Man's fans win.
headlopper - 1/12/2012, 11:20 AM
I like chocolate.
95 - 1/12/2012, 3:34 PM
@ironman53

I had no idea about Nolan til Inception. I thought Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were masterpieces, but I never knew the filmmakers behind it. What Nolan has done with Batman has been nothing short of spectacular. Honestly, I could less about his next film project, especially if it's a Howard Hughes biopic. If memory serves me well, Nolan has said he's not sure if he can do anymore original projects. Surely he'll be around, but what he does after The Dark Knight Rises doesn't interest me the slightest.

When Iron Man 3 (which sounds promising) hits cinemas I'll most likely support Marvel Studios endeavors, but I refuse to join the rally of the fan-praised The Avengers "epic". Iron Man 2 and Thor seemed edited under the weight of The Avengers, which looks less-spectacular than we've been told. I will not settle for less. The Avengers should be more epic than a Batman trilogy closer and Spider-Man vs. The Lizard flick. But it just doesn't look like that's so.

I appreciate the beyond amazing work Nolan has done. I will defend those films from any supremacist. Anyone who purely bashes on a masterpiece to raise their alliance higher up the pedestal. I find your opinion about "Marvel getting bashed far more" to be a bit biased given your username. As for @marvel72, I respect his opinion because he has ability to understand other people's opinions as well. I wouldn't put him in the same category as that other guy. There's a difference between a optimistic supporter and a supremacist.

And with that, I now know how much of a geek I truly am.
Coldblood6 - 1/12/2012, 3:54 PM
@3D

Are you for real??? BB was no 'masterpiece'. It was a good movie. People saw it, liked it, went home, and got on with their lives.

I know many people like tdk but I thought that it was overrated crap...and I am entitled to think so and say so. This is because I'm far more perceptive to good and bad writing/plotting than most people, including so called critics. However I don't go on tdk related threads to say so.

I'm not saying this to put my MARVEL allegiance higher up on the pedestal; I love Batman and Batman Returns to this day, and I argue against dc fans when I say that I liked SR.

As someone who started frequenting this site relatively recently I can safely say that the majority of the antagonism has been generated by nolan-worshippers. Firstly they cannot stand to hear anyone say anything bad about nolans movies and when they do they retort with insults. On top of that anytime there is a thread praising anything unrelated to nolan, they repeatedly jump in to trash it in relation to their overrated nolan stuff.
95 - 1/12/2012, 4:33 PM
@Coldblood6

LOL. How are you more perceptive to good or bad writing/plotting? A lot of Hollywood FILMMAKERS have acknowledged the beauty of that film. Yeah, people who actually made feature films. Plus, you just said you liked Superman Returns, LOL.

Batman Begins has been the inspiration for many CBMs and jumpstarted the reboot boom. Iron Man and X-Men: First Class learned from David Goyer and Nolan's work on Batman Begins, and have arguably topped their inspiration.

And is that a Marvel character I see in as your avatar? Hmmm... I think I know why you're mad. Please, dont't kid yourself here.
95 - 1/12/2012, 5:32 PM
@ironman53

Very good, Joe. I can agree with what you said.
bgharcourt - 1/12/2012, 11:15 PM
"This is a purely unbiased article written by someone who has really just had enough of what's been going on in this site."

Right. Dude, I think you need to look up the meaning of the word bias. This statement is in contradiction to the rest of the post. But I see what you are trying to say, and agree(to a point).

All I know is I'm going to be spending a lot of time(and money) at the movies this summer.

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