EDITORIAL: The great comic book movie hypocrisy

EDITORIAL: The great comic book movie hypocrisy

The reason for bashing one film is the reason why we love another. Does that make any sense?

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By deanwilkins - 5/19/2012
I'll do my very best to remain impartial for the majority of this article. My goal is to point out a huge contradiction that I can't accept or justify. I hope the feedback, if any, will give me some additional thoughts to consider.

When Avengers was being promoted - long before the feedback on what the film was actually like, there were many negative comments and opinions floating around.
For example...
"Too much Iron Man."
"No helmet for Thor."
"Hawkeye doesn't talk." "Hawkeye is a throw-away character." etc.

Now that most of us have seen (and loved) the movie, I want to draw attention to a few things.

What made Avengers work so well? To me personally, the characters were well fleshed out, given the appropriate screen time and worked well off each other. More that that though, I would say the film was more true to the comics than any of the previous films.
For example...
Hulk was actually really incredibly strong.
Thor was really, really powerful.
Iron Man was... well, consistent with the last 2 films in which he was in my opinion more likeable than Tony Stark in the comics.
Cap was patriotic, tragic and a true leader. I loved him in Avengers.
Black Widow was actually interested and dangerous.
Hawkeye didn't have the personality he had in the main comics, but he did match the Ultimate Hawkeye to a fair degree (minus losing his family, etc.)

My point is... Avengers was very much like the comics.

Then along comes the next Batman film. For some reason, the fact that it is NOTHING like the comic is not only accepted but applauded. Bane doesn't resemble his comic book character in the slightest bit. They don't have the same abilities, height, build, appearance... They share a name. That is all.

I want to ask why it's okay for Nolan to get away with this, but not any other cbm maker of recent memory. (Yes, I acknowledge that Superman 1 - 5, the other Batman films, Spider-Man films and X-Men films don't really resemble the comics THAT much, but are considered to be good films regardless. Of course, each film should be looked at separately to see how accurate they were as some were much more than others.)

In my opinion, I found Batman Begins to be completely boring. Bale was a great Bruce Wayne and he had the muscle to sell me on his look. I hated his voice which got worse in the sequel. I hated the fact that he never sold me on his detective abilities, intelligence or even ability to really fight.
The sequel was great. It didn't resemble the comic at all and Bale didn't have any muscle to speak of. But... Joker and Two-Face stole the show and enabled the film to be really good. Not quite a "Batman" film, but satisfying because it was intelligent and good.

Now we have Rises. I want to know... why aren't the fans crying over the many differences between this and the comic book? Do we trust Nolan so much because the previous film was really good? Let's look at something.

What made Joker so amazing? Besides the acting? My personal answer... he resembled Joker from the comic. Sure, the scars were new, but his personality was correct. His insanity was Joker. In the context of the Nolan Batman universe, it worked. Likewise with Two-Face who was tragic, tortured and looked amazing. Both villains were very similar to their comic book characters. Not completely. But enough.

So now we have Bane and Catwoman. I won't comment on Catwoman because I don't know how much she'll be like her comic book counterpart. Maybe she'll resemble her more than the previews have shown.
But Bane...
The guy has a really messed up mask that enables him to move around without feeling pain. But he's shorter than Batman, somewhat built and supposedly a great fighter. Smart too, I'm sure.
But in keeping with the Nolan-verse that's been created for Batman, why couldn't he be more like the comics? Why couldn't there be a new steroid - venom, which would make Bane look like he does in the comics? Why change his appearance so much?

How can guys cry because of Thor's missing helmet, but dance with joy about Rises?

Here's a better example.

Chris Evans was not as built in Avengers as he was in First Avenger. Guys picked up on this and were critical about it.
From what we've seen of Rises, Bale has no muscle to talk about. None. It's like he doesn't even care to try.

Why do guys get to pick on Evans, but ignore Bale who is even more extreme in his lack of physique?

I've been eager to see Bane done right in a film since the character was first presented in the comics. We'll ignore the abomination we got in Batman and Robin. When I heard Bane would be the main bad guy in this film, I was very excited. Then I saw him. Then I heard him. Now I can't help but think this film will fail. Even if he "breaks the Bat".

At this point, Rises looks pretentious. Nolan isn't even trying to make a Batman film now. It's just another action movie. It's another Nolan film. Yes, I love his films. (Except for Begins and Inception.) But come on! Is this really a Batman film?

One more thing. When Batman is pitted against another character in the famous vs. matches on this site, he usually wins. He's beaten just about everyone. Heck, probably even Galactus... There is a huge Batman bias. It's extreme. Is that why we ignore all the changes to the comics?

I hope the reboot will be true to the comic. Like most of you, I'll be watching Rises when it first comes out. But I'm approaching it with a feeling of dread and disappointment. Hopefully I'll be wrong. But I can't wait for that reboot featuring the same Batman we have in the comics. There's nothing wrong with that character. Why did Nolan have to change him?
Source: Me
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30 Comments
Kalel219 - 5/19/2012, 9:57 PM
Agree with all of this, this is why I can't stand most of nolan's fans even though his movies are great.
deanwilkins - 5/19/2012, 10:19 PM
Gaston, I don't agree. As I said, virtually nothing about Bane is the same as what was done in the comic.

Begins was not like Year One at all. Did you even read it?

Ideas are taken, then completely "updated" for the films. That is all. It's not just about the costumes. It's about who the characters are.
lsc2222 - 5/19/2012, 11:14 PM
I've been a DC fan for most of my life and while Nolan's first two Batman films were pretty good, I wasn't overly impressed. Heath Ledger's Joker was amazing of course, Christian Bale and Michael Caine do a great job as Bruce Wayne and Alfred and I won't even fail to mention that Gary Oldman IS Jim Gordon. Period.

My only gripe with Nolan's Batman movies is that he seems to favor the philosophical aspect of Batman's war on crime. He emphasizes Batman's status as a symbol for Gotham and ways it impacts Gotham's citizens emotionally and mentally. Action is sparse (in The Dark Knight he full-on fights Joker once) and there is soooo much talking and almost a political-esque debate amongst the characters.

Yes, Batman is a deep character and there are so many layers to him but...man I just want to watch Batman drop a beatdown on people. I don't want to watch him debate morals with Joker I want to watch him punch him in the throat. I think in a way, and it might just be Nolan's storytelling and film making style, he OVER thinks and OVER dialogues in his movies and in my opinion he kind of hinders the potential to see Batman in action.

As far as Bane goes all I have to say is...Bane? Really? He's the main villain? It's like going through Arkham City the game and fighting tons of awesome villains and then you find out the final boss is Clayface. It's kind of anti-climatic. There are so many other villains I would have preferred to see in this final film than Bane. However, if they wanted Bane they should've done a better job with him.

Hemsworth and Evans both look like they ate, drank and lived on steroids for Thor and Captain America. They looked like they lived in a gym for a year eating nothing but raw eggs Rocky-style, Tom Hardy looks like he spent six months working the assembly line at a Twinkie factory. In the comics Bane is a huge, mini-Hulk like character who looks like he could bench press a Chevy. I know they have to make him "realistic" for the movie, but geez Nolan...this Bane looks like a short, bald, chubby asthmatic wearing a fur coat. He's actually SHORTER than Batman. Kind of a let down. In the movie he's supposed to be able to feel no pain because of whatever he's gone through. Okay that's realistic I suppose...but instead of mini-Hercules we now get a guy with a major dependence on either weed or asprin.

Anne Hathaway as Catwoman? It's not Hally Berry, so I think Nolan should automatically get props for that. But I dunno, the suit looks cool but she doesn't ooze sex like Michelle Pfeiffer did. She's attractive to be sure, but she doesn't have that sexiness to her that Catwoman has.

I'm not a Nolan hater, I think his Batman films have been the best so far between him and Burton ( I refuse to acknowledge Schumacher)but I think his films are too intellectual. One of the reasons Iron Man, Thor, Captain America and The Avengers works is that they emphasize action and adventure so to speak, they combine great scripts that have meat to them with comedic wit and that makes the movies fun too. DC really tried to copy that with Green Lantern and unfortunately for them they just didn't get that formula right, Ryan Reynolds wasn't right for the part and the script and it's humor felt forced. With Marvel's movies the humor is subtle and flows with the movie and their casting is top notch.

I'll go see the final Batman movie, but to be honest I'm kind of Batman'ed out at this point. I'd like to see something else from Warner Bros. and DC.
antonio - 5/20/2012, 12:26 AM
@Mothra just goes to show you how pro Marvel the majority of people on this site are.
Thanos005 - 5/20/2012, 12:32 AM
using source material is essential to a story based on popular character. Otherwise its like The Mario Bros. movie. There is a reason these characters are loved, their stories. and yeah, word for word, frame for panel adaptations would be dumb. I don't want to see the same story twice, but straying too far just pisses the fans off. I thought BB was boring as hell, but I loved DK. But honestly, I'm not too excited for TDKR. But Nolan hid Two-Face, and it worked quite well. So lets see the movie before we jump on the "Nolan isn't that great" bandwagon.
marknjoanna - 5/20/2012, 4:21 AM
i love the avengers and tdk.

i visited this site for over two years reading the threads voting on the fights etc etc etc.

i would find it funny when batman would beat say the silver suffer or shazam.

i also found it sad (for them) how so many talked on here about how they would love to find the line that leads to kissing nolans bean sack,(for me nolans ok but heath put that movie over the top).

but it made me sick that i couldnt click on an avengers thread (no not a single one)without reading post like popcorn flick,this movie will bomb,power rangers,transformers,whedon sux it never ended.(im talking to you jla2014,antonio.evil 69.azazel and my fav. cause he trys and hide it so much is ridfanboy)

i never had a problem with people posting opinions but pure trolling and hating got me to open this account and ride these idiots (and lots of others just like them) into the ground and have enjoyed owning ridboy many times(ie, look at the will whedon dir, avengers 2 thread that was a bute)

but i will say now that the avengers has already stomped a mud hole in tdk and are walking it dry as im posting this,its getting a lot better and i havent went after these chumps for days and hope they stay off marvels back.


btw guys how long did it take you and your ilk to pry those feet lose from your mouths so you could enjoy your crow,i was afraid some of you had to eat cold crow with as deep as some of those feet went.



MrReese - 5/20/2012, 4:41 AM
Did u just say no 1 complains bout Rises?? ROFLMAO!!!! XD
dellamorte1872 - 5/20/2012, 5:44 AM
this kinda dumb plus, guys noticed EVANS wasnt as built? who? were they homosexual? i was noticing Scarlets ass the whole time lol. you just wanna bitch to bitch
dellamorte1872 - 5/20/2012, 5:50 AM
i agree tho too much IRON MAN we've had two films with him they shoulda highlighted another character more
CorndogBurglar - 5/20/2012, 8:15 AM
Im not sure where you're getting this from. Do uou not come here all that much? Im not trying to be sarcastic, im seriously asking because for a long time there were people hating on everything Avengers related, just like there were people hating on everything Batman related.

There was an Avengers/Batman war going on in just about every article. Its just like everything else, you have people who like certain things, and people who dislike other things.

Regardless of whether Nolan's movies are like the comics or not doesn't change the fact that they are highly enjoyable to the vast majority of people that watch them. Same can obviously be said about the Avengers now.

What does that tell you? It should tell you that if a movie is entertaining, people will watch it. Also, bane really doesnt seem all that different from the comics aside from his look. The painkilling gas is obviously supposed to be his venom, and im a little confused how this seems to be lost on so many people. Sure it might not give him super strength, but it still makes him that much more deadly in a fight. He's got a personal vendetta against Batman, just like in knightfall. He wants to destroy gotham and has to defeat Batman first. He knows Bruce is Batman. He seems to be a criminal mastermind, and anyone who reads the comics knows that is certainly the case in the comics. My point is, aside from his looks, bane actually shares more in common with comic counterpart than people give credit for.
justified1 - 5/20/2012, 8:16 AM
I can't understand why people judge a movie based on how a character looks.

Look at how people bashed Ledger. Look how that turned out.

This is a new interpetation of Bane. I think people should wait and see the movie before they say that Bane failed.

I think Nolan is going to surprise us all this summer.
I don't know. Does that make me a "Nolanite".

The Avengers is average. a great action film but that is it. Give it extra points for seeing the team together. A great film but nothing too special.

Let the bitching begin!
Madmex93 - 5/20/2012, 8:22 AM
Having a movie be exactly like the source material does not equate to a better story or product. What made The Avengers great wasn't that it was exactly like the comics but rather that it was well written with good action and captured the spirit of its source material. You know what? Nolan was able to do that as well, while he has deviated aesthetically from the source material he did capture the spirit of who these characters are. Furthermore, just look at examples of the Sherlock TV series vs the movie series. Aesthetically the movie series is closer to the original books, but the TV series (which is set in modern day) is far better and probably feels closer to the original books.
golden123 - 5/20/2012, 10:33 AM
People vote for Batman in those battle polls because they think Batman can beat anybody near his level of power. When Batman wins in all of these fights, the makers of these polls place Batman up against insanely overpowered heroes. At this point, the poll is an absoulute joke since everybody knows who would win, so people vote for Batman in the already silly poll. Besides, it's just a battle poll. It's all fantasy. It doesn't matter.
golden123 - 5/20/2012, 10:39 AM
Tip for next time, when you feel whiney, don't post the article. This article is just a one-sided mess that fails to be knowledgable about the comment section of a "The Dark Knight Rises" article which isn't that hard of a subject to do research on.

By the way, the grandest value of a character in film or comics, shouldn't be the visual aspect.
BarnaclePete - 5/20/2012, 11:20 AM
I love how everything thinks they know what Bane is like in the movie and yet, NOBODY has seen the movie.
JDUKE25 - 5/20/2012, 11:28 AM
One movie's style is different from another???

STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!

The Avengers is more like the comics. It worked for that.

Nolans batman films are a different take. Get over it. They've been successful and some of the best movies out there recently. He has a way about doing characters, and it's worked.

Bane's look: At first I was iffy, but I've grown to like it. You know why? Cuz I kept an open mind and didn't come to a conclusion of automatically hating it. I like it better than the freakin luchador mask.

You're asking if this is really a Batman movie?

Umm.....

Yes..............smdh

You do know that Batman is in the movie right?

Please don't sit by me in the theater. I'll have to toss your a$$ out if you start complaining during the movie.
Supes17 - 5/20/2012, 12:14 PM
All I know is that the people on this site are
BIASED
AS
[frick]
Supes17 - 5/20/2012, 12:18 PM
I've read FEW negative comments for The Avengers.
Usually the comments I read on Avengers articles are
"I CAME" or "DC SUCKS AZZ" or "[frick] EVERYTHING ELSE"

Those people are the same ones who jump at the first DC article(especially TDKR) to talk shit about it.

It's pretty silly
Supes17 - 5/20/2012, 12:23 PM
AND HE HAS BEATEN GALACTUS, I BELIEVE

BUT MOST PEOPLE CLICKED ON BATMAN AS A JOKE
NO ONE EXPECTS A HUMAN TO BEAT A COSMIC BEING

IT'S CALLED SARCASM, A PUN ON HOW THE COMICS AND MEDIA OVERPOWER HIM SO MUCH


lmao........
antonio - 5/20/2012, 1:07 PM
@Equinox I agree with your post more than I agree with this entire article. Well, maybe beside Sin City being the most faithful CBM ever. I'd personally give that to Watchmen, although no CBM has been 100% accurate.
Supes17 - 5/20/2012, 1:09 PM
^ LMAO You tell 'em. Aengers vs. TDKR was the first thing I smelled when I read the title
antonio - 5/20/2012, 1:16 PM
I second that!!

antonio - 5/20/2012, 1:39 PM
@Deanwilkins please change the title to Avengers vs TDKR.
marknjoanna - 5/20/2012, 3:21 PM
Supes17 - 5/20/2012, 12:23 PM
Report Comment AND HE HAS BEATEN GALACTUS, I BELIEVE

BUT MOST PEOPLE CLICKED ON BATMAN AS A JOKE
NO ONE EXPECTS A HUMAN TO BEAT A COSMIC BEING

IT'S CALLED SARCASM, A PUN ON HOW THE COMICS AND MEDIA OVERPOWER HIM SO MUCH


lmao........


thats if its 1 or 2 fights but after 10 of these in a row ,now were talking idiots that ruin a poll.
dbapz - 5/20/2012, 4:13 PM
You're a [frick]ing idiot.

Do you read this site at all?
LoudNoises - 5/20/2012, 5:13 PM
The title and description of this editorial is very misleading. If I'd known it was nothing more than a list of the reasons why you like the avengers and dislike Nolan's Batman films I would have saved myself the trouble and just hit myself in the head with a hammer.
Supes17 - 5/20/2012, 8:19 PM
@marknjoanna
They are either trolls or just want to see how many people Batman can beat... It's just a joke really..
marknjoanna - 5/21/2012, 2:31 AM
Supes17 - 5/20/2012, 8:19 PM
Report Comment @marknjoanna
They are either trolls or just want to see how many people Batman can beat... It's just a joke really..


yes makes a joke of the polls.

lots of people want to have a more realistic poll. but there seems to be this one group that keeps making a joke of it,ha ha nice ty move along please.
Archer83 - 5/21/2012, 8:16 AM
A very biased write-up. cant you guys keep an open mind to ideas? clearly you want to re-ignite some flame in this "TDKR/AVENGERS" rivalry for idle nincompoops.gO Bitch somewhere else.
You seem to be gripping about the costumes and not the personalites. Nolans adaptation are based on pulp comics. he gets away with nothing in the eyes of "fans" like you right now.He avoided villians like Riddler or penguin who share traits with His version of Joker and Falcone respectively. he needed physical rivalry. who else in the comics but Bane. YOU REALLY WANT A LUCHADOR-MASKED VILLAIN THAT CAN BE PLAYED BY ANY BLOKE? please. Grow up and quit whinning at every change. you think CBMs are just made for under the stairs fan boys these days. if you cant capture a mainstream audience with your movie in Hollywood go suck brick. Hence TDKR cant be a cartoon with a character that will seize audience in theaters with giggles.
ralfinader - 5/21/2012, 5:05 PM
@boniface83- agreed it is biased, but this is an editorial, and those are written opinions, not news reports.

Comic books are a visual medium as well as an intellectual one, so when movies are made of them, fans expect to be amazed on both of those fronts. What Nolan has presented here is far from that on the one front we have had most access to, visual.

Bane could have been accomplished without a mask at all. But with an actor that presents a physical superiority to Bats in musculature and most importantly: Height. That mask is no less a joke than a luchador mask, and I have to think if people actually like it, they have drank deeply the kool-aid that is Nolanite.

The fact a Nolan Batman movie has Bane in it at all disappoints me, not a fan of Bane. Then to cast someone so far from the physique of the charactor, and costume said actor so as to be completely unrecognizable as the charactor he is to represent shows poor judgment in my opinion. Joker and Scarecrow were easiyly recognizable in BB and TDK with the changes their looks went through.

So I can't be psyched for this movie like I was the first two. I am a Batman fan first, and loved BB and TDK, but the choice of Bane, the casting of Hardy and Hathoway, all weigh heavily against Nolan and TDKR for me.

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