Marvel v DC: Bringing out the best in each other

A lot of tension between the Marvel and DC camps on this site. I feel this tension is unwarranted, and the best thing to ever happen to Marvel was DC, and vice-versa.

Editorial Opinion
By ossie85 - Dec 02, 2015 10:12 AM EST
Filed Under: Comics

Marvel v DC: Bringing out the best in each other



Competition is good. Competition can be strong. It doesn't have to be adversarial. I feel that the tone of this website lately seems to missing the point, Marvel and DC are the best thing to ever happen to each other.

An old cliche - a rising tide lifts all boats. The quality of the early X-Men and Spider-Man films allowed DC to revisit a less camp version of Batman (Batman Begins), which obviously led to The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight's phenomenal success, along with Iron Man that same year, told mainstream audiences that Superhero films aren't just a niche for geeks or solely aimed at kids. The Avengers earth-shattering box office and critical reception gave the greenlight for other studios to move forward with there shared universes.

And to mix metaphors, a rising tide does lift all boats - but if your boat isn't sea worthy, it will sink.



Two strong examples of that are the attempt to build a cinematic universe around The Amazing Spider-Man by trying to force magic to happen without having earned it, and throwing together another Fantastic Four movie thinking that the general audience would watch it anyway. For the record, I don't think The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a HORRIBLE film (just a mediocre one), but I do think that Fant4stic is an incoherent travesty that didn't even rise to the low bar set in the Tim Story Fantastic Four films. In my opinion the worst sin a film can make is to be incoherent, if the film doesn't make sense, it has failed on the most basic level of storytelling.

In the early 2000s, after the success of Spider-Man 2 and X2: X-Men United things were starting to look up. And as much quality that Sam Raimi and Bryan Singer instilled into their films, there was still an attitude going around of 'give them explosions, and they'll watch it'. And although Sony and Fox are competing studios, it really did feel like a 'gentlemen's agreement' that there was enough room for all, so why push and shove. Those factors combined will generally lead to an air of 'it'll do' and 'let's just get it out the door'.



We have some pretty ordinary films at this time, mostly from Fox, with the likes of Daredevil, Elektra and Fantastic Four. And what came next? The critically panned Spider-Man 3X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Again for the record, I don't think Spider-Man 3 and X-Men: The Last Stand are HORRIBLE films, just disappointing and below par. X-Men Origins: Wolverine was a rush job, whose few saving graces will always be lost in the overall poor writing and ordinary decision making of the film makers.

And what was DC/WB doing? Catwoman (I admit I haven't seen it, and probably won't) and Superman Returns. I really didn't like Superman Returns. I found it very boring, but I will point out that the scene with Superman saving the plane out of the sky remains one of my favourite superhero moments. A huge fan of V for Vendetta and Watchmen, but in my mind, they are in different category to the mainstream CBM.

But 2 people happened that would change things forever. Christopher Nolan and Kevin Feige. Both film makers with a vision.



Nolan wanted to make Batman serious character again. Public perception still had Adam West in mind, while Joel Schumacher had erased all of the goodwill created and work done by Tim Burton. Nolan wanted a cohesive world, relatable to the world's events, something stylistic and inspiring. And while Batman Begins didn't have outrageous box office numbers, it aged well, gained a huge cult following and the rest is history.

Feige was convinced that he could take the best of the Marvel comic world (an integrated universe), and make it work on film. Something unprecedented. Of course, when making history, you have to make a strong first step - and with Jon Favreau and Robert Downey, Jr, they found an Iron Man film that is still considered one of the best MCU films.



Now, all of a sudden, we were having multiple comic book films a year. The X-Men film franchise was revitalised with the outstanding X-Men: First Class and underrated The Wolverine. Sony's The Amazing Spider-Man was seen as a promising first step, The Avengers avenged, while The Dark Knight Rises delivered a strong ending to Nolan's magnificent trilogy.



Now we had 4 major studios competing. Quality was a must. Fans and general movie goers wouldn't forgive films seen as lacking heart, story, world building or just a plain cash grab. As mentioned before, The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was the first film to fall into this trap, the public didn't buy it (overall box office numbers were good, but it was the most expensive Spidey film ever for the worst ever result - not even factoring in inflation or 3D). Bigger, wasn't always better.

DC released Man of Steel as its first film in a cohesive universe. Warner Brothers would have to be disappointed with the numbers it received, but it did enough as a platform for what was to come.

What did I think of Man of Steel? I adored the first 2 thirds, and liked it overall. It is a good film. But I had issues with the last act. And not for the reasons that most people criticise the film for. I don't mind the destruction, it was a spectacular, if not a little long, set piece (although it would have made all the difference if Superman saved a civilian here and there, much like the cut-away scenes of Cap saving people in Avengers). For me, it didn't feel like it had earned the ending. It felt to me like the ending of a trilogy we hadn't had yet and didn't feel organic. BUT, I liked the film, I liked the style, and am excited for the future.


But I digress. My point being is that if the MCU had failed and The Avengers bombed, I don't think we'd be seeing a full slate of DC movies. If Batman Begins turned out to be camp garbage, we may not have ever gotten an Iron Man film.

At no point do I ever thing the higher ups at Marvel or DC have ever thought "let's go out and destroy the other". What is painfully obvious too me is that they are trying to keep raising the bar higher and higher, knowing, that if they stumble, the damage it will cause them could be catastrophic. We only need to look at our friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man for proof of that.

And TV? Well, the same logic applies. Arrow and The Flash, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil and Netflix, are all trying to do things that have never been done before, and we are lucky for it.
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tonytony
tonytony - 12/2/2015, 11:25 AM
great article, not enough people think like you. far too many people are willing on a side to fail. I will say that before disney got involved there were many successful comic book movies and most people didnt check which studios made films. Disney introduced this form of tribalism in a bid to distinguish itself and promote loyalty.

Raimi spiderman did well and we all cheered, foxs xmen did well and we all cheered too. When disney got involved they really pushed the rivalry and have done so ever since. it wasnt like this before them and my blame will always fall on them for turning the fans into what they are today to the point where some disney trolls will attack other marvel franchises hoping it fails so that they can start campaigning to take the rights.

THis is my main problem with the MCU and the stuff i saw from anthony mackie wound me up no end.

Forthas
Forthas - 12/2/2015, 4:15 PM
I kind of think that your article misses the point. The genesis of the rivalry I believe is born out of frustration. I will just speak for myself but the two major comic book brands (Marvel and DC) were pretty much evenly paced by 2005. When the Nolan-verse launched and continued through the Dark Knight Rises, it is my belief that DC fans had a feeling that it could not get any better. The most popular figure of the DC brand had reached both critical and commercial success that even until this day few superhero franchises have achieved. The frustration began when Warner Brothers began tampering with its successful franchise. They changed the actor portraying Batman to an actor nobody wanted (despite everyone trying to talk themselves into believing he is the perfect one for the role). In addition they put a director and story writers who are no where near the caliber of Nolan to create the Superman reboot. Add to that the poor casting that followed and I think that sensing this it became clear that Marvel (which slowly and steadily created a universe...i.e did not change/reboot their popular heroes and made commitments to bringing them back) was surpassing DC in the quality and quantity of its brand. While DC fans may try to talk tough and pretend as though they like the direction that DC is moving, deep down inside I think there is a sense (one that I share) that it is highly unlikely to come close to the Dark Knight era. I think that it has made DC fans hyper-defensive which you are wrongly interpreting as a rivalry. There is no rivalry at this point. Marvel is light years ahead of DC and that is something that will likely not change anytime soon. I say this as a DC fan (in terms of the universe). In my opinion it was a massive mistake to move away from the Nolan-verse which is the entire reason why they are having to play catch up and DC fans are suffering for it.
ossie85
ossie85 - 12/2/2015, 5:16 PM

@tonytony thanks for that. I agree Disney has been building brand recognition to try and create loyalty - but has to be said that is what any good business would do. I don't think Disney have ever said "let's build a brand so they think other films are bad", more "let's build a brand so they know our films are good". Individual cast and crew are just that - individual. Hard to control them all

@Forthas That's an interesting take I hadn't thought about. I too wish that Man of Steel was an extension of the Nolan universe, even if they had to recast Bale.
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