Batman Rises: Whats Wrong With It (Do not click on this Nolanites)

Batman Rises: Whats Wrong With It  (Do not click on this Nolanites)

Click with an open mind please...

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By VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012
I warned you...

Let me start off by saying that I loved Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. I think both films (more so Batman Begins) are nearly perfect films. I didn't get the chance to see The Dark Knight Rises until it came out on blu-ray because my daughter was born the very weekend the movie came out. And after my wife got home with a crying newborn baby I couldn't just leave her alone with our 4 year old son and newborn baby. So as I said I had to wait until it came to video. I have finally seen it and I have to say, I was really disappointed. This movie had SO many things wrong with it that just didn't make any sense to me. Let me go through the ones that come to mind, and if you can help me make sense of these please do. I welcome any input that'll help me enjoy this movie more.

If the prison Batman was in was controlled by Bane (they wouldn’t even talk about Bane’s history because of that fact) why would they let Bruce Wayne leave? Not to mention that the inmate helped Bruce get better. He was afraid to talk about Bane’s past because he ruled the prison but he was ok with helping Bane’s enemy get back on his feet by fixing his back?

This next one is the one that bugs me the most. Bruce Wayne is in another country when he escapes the prison Bane put him in and still manages to get back to Gotham with no money and no identification. Not to mention all of the bridges were destroyed and under military watch, so how did Bruce cross them? He than walks around a Gotham engulfed in chaos to, by chance, run into Catwoman who he doesn’t care at all that she betrayed him and left him for dead. In fact, for some reason it made Bruce trust her even more. World’s greatest detective? Really?

Why did Batman leave the cops of Gotham after shooting Bane’s Batmobile? If he stayed in the Bat and fought many of the cops lives would have been saved. He also seemed to ignore his own "no guns, no killing" rule quite a bit.

Last we see of Batman in The Dark Knight, his legs are fine. We find out in The Dark Knight Rises that he hasn’t been Batman in 8 years (when we last saw him running from the cops at the end of TDK with his legs being A-OK) yet his legs are falling apart. When did this happen?

Why would Bane spend 5 months changing Gotham only to nuke it? To poison the souls of the people of Gotham? What does that matter if everyone is dead? Not to mention the only people Bane was letting leave were the people he truly hated. Anyone who got past the ice wouldn't be caught in the nuclear explosion. He was doing those people a favor by letting them go. A small chance on the ice was a better chance than staying in a city that was about to get nuked.

Batman just happens to show up just hours before the bomb blows up.

Why did the Gotham police set up ramps for Bane when he robbed the bank? They had all their “barricades” backwards creating perfect ramps for Bane and his men.

Why did that orphan want Batman to return? The kid looked like he was maybe 9 or 10 years old. That means for practically that kids entire life he’s heard about how Batman killed Harvey Dent and a few cops. Batman was thought to be a murderer and a criminal as per the ending to The Dark Knight. There is no reason he should be thought of as a hero by that kid. Or anyone else for that matter.

No Nuclear fallout from the bomb? Not to mention it apparently only takes a few minutes to turn a clean energy device into a nuclear bomb.

How did Bane find out who Batman really is? Ra's Al Ghul didn’t find out that Bruce Wayne was Batman until right before he died so he didn’t tell him.

Bruce Wayne just walks around showing his face after the entire world thinks he’s dead. Bruce Wayne is a billionaire. How do people not notice?

Bruce Wayne repaired the bat signal, laid out gasoline in the shape of a bat on the bridge, and left a bag for Robin, all in the span of a day. And the ice that seemed ever so thin all of the sudden could hold Batman and all of his weight in the bat suit.


Oh and Bane’s voice was stupid. Really, really stupid.

And for the record I enjoyed Batman Begins more than The Dark Knight because BB got into Bruce Wayne's head more. We got to see why he became Batman, what he thinks of justice and injustice, which left me with a better understanding of Batman as a character. The Dark Knight was great because of the Joker, but I'm a bigger Batman fan than a Joker fan. Which is why I enjoyed Batman Begins more. Just an FYI.
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TheRaven20 - 12/16/2012, 7:07 PM
All valid questions, even though I still enjoyed it.
GoILL - 12/16/2012, 7:40 PM
I'll come back in a day and see how this article turns out. I'm sure i'll get some good laughs.
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 8:20 PM
So...is the purpose of this to only be read by people who agree with it?
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 8:26 PM
No, the purpose of this is for people who aren't going to start a five page battle over this to read it. I seriously want to like this movie. I want to hear reasons for the things I listed. And I know the Nolanites will do nothing but start a big 'ol fight over this. I'd like to have a discussion, not a fight.
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 8:30 PM
And for the record I really enjoyed two scenes. The scene with Robin talking to Bruce about anger that goes into your bones. And the fact Robin saw it on Bruce's face as well. How he talked about having to wear a mask and practice smiling in the mirror. And the scene Alfred is talking to Bruce about the first time he heard his cries throughout the house. It really showed how much Alfred loved Bruce.
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 8:31 PM
Okay, then if offered answers to many of these questions, you'd be interested in hearing them? I'll be respectful.
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 8:37 PM
When Grant Morrison wrote RIP, Batman and Robin, and The Return of Bruce Wayne I got tired of all the questions me and my buddy had. It was convoluted crazy-ass Grant Morrison stuff, so I reread it all, took notes, and answered them all. Turns out, it all made perfect sense, nothing was left unanswered, no plot wholes, nothing. It took obsession-levels of attention, but I did it. I've been trying to do that with TDKR's too, and feel fairly confident about it.
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 8:38 PM
*plot holes that is
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 8:45 PM
I'm no Nolanite, I just really like Batman
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 9:30 PM
I wasnt answering any questions yet. I was asking if the author was interested in hearing them.
Jollem - 12/16/2012, 9:46 PM
the dark knight trilogy

best cbm trilogy
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 9:55 PM
"How did Bane find out who Batman really is?"

Are you guys [frick]ing retarded?

Ra's was a member of the League of Shadows.
Ra's trained Bruce.
Ra's knew immediately Bruce was Batman.
Ra's and the League of Shadows burned Bruce/Batman's mansion.
Batman indirectly kills its leader, Ra's.
News of Ra's defeat at the hands of Bruce/Batman spread throught the entire organization.
Ra's daughter, Talia, along with Bane, learn that the League is without a leader and assume control and together with the League vow revenge against Bruce Wayne/Batman by finishing her father's work and destroying Gotham City.

Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 9:56 PM
Simple^
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 9:59 PM
"How did Bane know of Wayne's "off the books" department?"

Not 100% clear on this one, but I'd say Talia.
She is the reason Bane knew so much about Bruce.
Both Talia and Ra's disguised themselves behind a decoy leader. Although Bane himself was a leader alongside Talia.

Bruce gave Talia his full trust even letting her get a chair on the board,going to the underground secret place where the nuclear reactor was located.

Talia infiltrated Wayne Enterprises. All she had to do was disclose information to Bane, who carried out their plans.
FirstAvenger - 12/16/2012, 10:07 PM
Good questions but it wasn't that good. So just move on like I did.
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 10:18 PM
@jjk2814

If you could answer ANY of the questions I've posted I would be more than happy to read them. I mean really, you doing that and me reading them is the entire point of this editorial. Much thanks.
Jollem - 12/16/2012, 10:28 PM
@VIRILEMAN - hell yes. healthy debate is part of the reason why i like this site, when it can happen :)
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 10:30 PM
@Supes17

There is no reason to get nasty. And I'm sorry my friend you're wrong about Ra's. Ra's did not immediately know Bruce was Batman. Most people didn't even know about Batman yet. That is why in Batman Begins he says "Well, well. You took my advice about theatricality a bit... literally." Ra's didn't know what Bruce was up to exactly until that moment. And he was dead like 15 minutes later. When would he have gotten the chance to tell Bane exactly?
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 10:37 PM
Well Supes17 got the "How does Bane know he's Bruce?" correct. As a member of the League of Shadows, that information could have become available to Bane easily. Depending on when he was excommunicated. However, Talia certainly would have known.

Another one I'd happily answer is the first one regarding the prison:
-The inmates were prisoners of Bane. Some could have been there before The League of Shadows liberated others, would have been thrown in there by Bane himself. They are men without hope. The very purpose of the prison as stated by Bane and later emphasized by the doctor and the man who helped Bruce, is to give them the illusion of hope but keep it forever out of reach. Bane quite simply underestimated Bruce. He never thought it would be possible for him to escape because he had full faith that showing him what was happening to Gotham would crush his spirit beyond hope. But I think its perfectly understandable that the prisoners would help Bruce. Hell, they have nothing to live for, might as well watch another guy try and fail making the climb.

You know, if you look at the FAQ section of this movie on IMDb, it offers a few solid answers. Tomorrow maybe I'll take on a couple more of these.

But I am glad to have gotten a better understanding of your reason for posting this.
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 10:40 PM
Ahh, got it, Ra's did know that bats were Bruce's fear. Ra's is a brilliant man, it would be obvious to him after all their conversations.
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 10:59 PM
@VIRILEMAN: Yes he did. He commented on Bruce's work as Batman with something about "scrambling on Gotham's rooftops."

He said the bit about the "theatricality" because he had not seen him up close dressed up like a [frick]ing Bat.
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:01 PM
And even if that was the case Ra's [frick]ing organization would know full fell who was the one responsible for his death. Batman didn't kill the ninjas or arrest them. He simply knocked them the [frick] out.
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:06 PM
@VIRILEMAN: I apologize for reacting that way. You know how things work on this site:)
It's just that I've heard that question several times and it frustrates me because the answer is VERY clear. At the end of Batman Begins, the League was fully aware who the man behind the cowl was. Talia and Bane must have been informed of Ra's death, otherwise they wouldn't have taken control.
"Oh and by the way his killer was a former member of the League who betrayed him and is now a billionare vigilante in the city he failed to destroy. We totally know his secret identity and could [frick] him over anytime we want... Just let that sink in for a minute, Talia...." :P
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 11:07 PM
Post by Supes17

"And even if that was the case Ra's [frick]ing organization would know full fell who was the one responsible for his death. Batman didn't kill the ninjas or arrest them. He simply knocked them the [frick] out."
-------------------------------------------------

Ok. Here we go. That makes perfect sense. Thank you my friend. That is one complaint I can scratch off my list. That really does make sense. Batman didn't kill any of those of members of the LoS.
Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/?a=71408#RplM966RPgrvzToj.99
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:09 PM
And I'm pretty sure Talia told Bane everything. I mean they planned that shit together. I'm sure the League would have been hesitant to let a woman take control, so Bane protected her and made sure no one defied her authority.

I honestly think they should have made a director's cut of the film
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 11:10 PM
That's like one down and 10 or so to go. If you guys can seriously explain away all my complaints I will love you guys for it. :D
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 11:11 PM
"You're not Ra's Al Ghul...I watched him die."
"But is Ra's Al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?"
"...Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity Ra's?"
"Surely a man who spends his nights scrambling over rooftops of Gotham wouldn't begrudge me duel identities."

Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:12 PM
Before TDKR came out, I was wondering what the hell happened to them.
Like "Hey we totally know Bruce Wayne is Batman.He killed our leader. Are we simply going to take that? Shouldn't we like, get revenge???"
"Nah let's just forget it ever happened."
"But a lot of our members survived, I'm sure we could-"
"Nah..."
:P
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 11:12 PM
sorry, that was being answered while i was typing that...we can move on now :)
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:13 PM
@jjk2814: Bingo, that was the quote. Bruce even asked him to "give him more time". By that he was referring to his work as Batman to end Gotham's corruption and clean up the streets.
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 11:14 PM
IMDb's answer to Bruce's injuries...which I agree with...

"Being Batman is a physically demanding job, Bruce Wayne had been shot, beaten, set on fire, gassed by weaponized hallucinogens, fallen from extreme heights, bitten by dogs, survived explosions, crashes, etc.. While the Batsuit would offer him some protection, the physical trauma he had sustained would certainly take its toll on his body. As we see at the beginning of The Dark Knight, Bruce had several scars over his body and he had only been Batman for less than a year. In this film, 8 years have passed and Bruce has been locked away in seclusion. If he didn't stay in top shape, the previous injuries to his body would likely start taking their toll. At the end of The Dark Knight, Bruce can be seen limping after falling while running from the police, so the cane he has in this story is probably a result of the fall."
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 11:14 PM
This next one is the one that bugs me the most. Bruce Wayne is in another country when he escapes the prison Bane put him in and still manages to get back to Gotham with no money and no identification. Not to mention all of the bridges were destroyed and under military watch, so how did Bruce cross them? He than walks around a Gotham engulfed in chaos to, by chance, run into Catwoman who he doesn’t care at all that she betrayed him and left him for dead. In fact, for some reason it made Bruce trust her even more.

And

Why did that orphan want Batman to return? The kid looked like he was maybe 9 or 10 years old. That means for practically that kids entire life he’s heard about how Batman killed Harvey Dent and a few cops. Batman was thought to be a murderer and a criminal as per the ending to The Dark Knight. There is no reason he should be thought of as a hero by that kid. Or anyone else for that matter.

And

Last we see of Batman in The Dark Knight, his legs are fine. We find out in The Dark Knight Rises that he hasn’t been Batman in 8 years (when we last saw him running from the cops at the end of TDK with his legs being A-OK) yet his legs are falling apart. When did this happen?


These are the big three for me.
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 11:15 PM
Ok I lied. This one too...

Why would Bane spend 5 months changing Gotham only to nuke it? To poison the souls of the people of Gotham? What does that matter if everyone is dead? Not to mention the only people Bane was letting leave were the people he truly hated. Anyone who got past the ice wouldn't be caught in the nuclear explosion. He was doing those people a favor by letting them go. A small chance on the ice was a better chance than staying in a city that was about to get nuked.
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:16 PM
To answer the question about the bomb. Batman showed up in GOtham City days before the bomb went off. He had time to make that fire signal, rescue Gordon and Blake, nd prepare for the battle.

The film doesn't really show it clearly. He might have arrived on the day before the battle
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 11:18 PM
I've been trying to find the interview where Nolan, Jonathan Nolan, I think stated that the prison is somewhere in Central America, now I admit that that is still a massive undertaking/trek, to make it back, it does make it easier.

Bruce clearly learned a lot about making his way through the world without access to his wealth or technology in his time before he joined the League, I honestly have no problem in believing he managed to make it back to the cave(which is in the Palisades, outside of Gotham city limits.
VIRILEMAN - 12/16/2012, 11:19 PM
Posted by jjk2814

"Being Batman is a physically demanding job, Bruce Wayne had been shot, beaten, set on fire, gassed by weaponized hallucinogens, fallen from extreme heights, bitten by dogs, survived explosions, crashes, etc.. While the Batsuit would offer him some protection, the physical trauma he had sustained would certainly take its toll on his body. As we see at the beginning of The Dark Knight, Bruce had several scars over his body and he had only been Batman for less than a year. In this film, 8 years have passed and Bruce has been locked away in seclusion. If he didn't stay in top shape, the previous injuries to his body would likely start taking their toll. At the end of The Dark Knight, Bruce can be seen limping after falling while running from the police, so the cane he has in this story is probably a result of the fall."
------------------------------------------------------

That makes sense to me. I really appreciate this guys. There are only those three major ones left.
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 11:19 PM
Actually, Supes, as portrayed in the film, and this is open for interpretation, it appears that the bomb was down to its last 18 hours by the time Bruce escaped from the pit.
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:21 PM
Oh and Batman was limping like a mother[frick]er at the end of The Dark Knight.


That injury coupled with the damage he must have taken from those RIDICULOUS UNSURVIVEABLE heights and lack of cartilage in his knees messed his leg.


A person with that kind of lifestyle wears down their body an accelerated rate. I remember reading that if Batman existed in real life he would only be able to do it for a few years before his body would force him to quit or get killed.
Supes17 - 12/16/2012, 11:23 PM
jjk2814:
If that's the case, there is NO WAY he could have made the long trip back and plan out the battle that quickly
jjk2814 - 12/16/2012, 11:23 PM
You certainly don't have to accept all answers, because some of them, honestly, are answered by a simple decision to aid an action scene. Like the police barricades, Nolan just wanted motorcycles to jump over them. It was cool, right? If you have a problem, with that, I don't blame you.
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