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Why I Don’t Want a Spider-Man 4 Movie

Why the risk of holding out hope is too much to ask of me.
Unlike most opinions I’ve read on this site, I don’t hold any of the Spider-Man movies in high regard. I’ve felt this way even before the abomination known as Spider-Man 3 plagued the silver screen. I can honestly say I’ve completely lost interest in the franchise. Though all three of the Spider-Man movies have had high points, the low points vastly overpower them. I haven’t had to think about how disappointing these movies were to me for the past few years; but with Spider-Man 4 in its developmental stages, these thoughts have come to light anew. I don’t want to go into a long winded rant, so I will try my best to break my opinions down to cover each movie separately.

Spider-Man: First and foremost, Tobey Maguire does not know how to portray Peter Parker. Even his rendition of Peter in high school missed the mark. Tobey tried so hard to come across as meek and nerdy it was awkward to watch. It was a classic case of overacting. For some reason he decided to keep this shtick up even after Parker’s transformation into Spider-Man. Not once did I get the feeling he was a boy genius, just a nerdy kid with superpowers. Gone was Spider-Man’s witty repertoire. It was replaced with shaky one- liners in a tone lacking any confidence. Once I saw Kristen Dunst as Mary Jane Watson, I started to lose all my expectations for the movie as a whole. Was this really the best person they could find to fit the part? It’s not like she’s a phenomenal actress to begin with, but her looks are nothing to write home about. MJ’s boisterous, vivacious persona was substituted for a lonely, downtrodden one.

Enter William Dafoe as Normal Osborn; perfect casting in my opinion. After watching him grimace while perched on a piece of lab equipment, I knew this would be the redeeming quality of the movie. They found an actor with the right poise, swagger and personality. Even his twisted facial expressions were picture perfect for a live action Green Goblin. And then they cover him up with a metal suit. The split-personality library scene showed a scarier Green Goblin than all the Power Ranger suit scenes combined.

Spider-Man 2:Few sequels are better than the first movie they’re based off of, and this isn’t one of them. Alfred Molina, one of the best actors of our generation, portrayed a Doctor Octavius that I’ve never seen before in the comics. Cool, confident and not in control of his actions; that doesn’t sound like Doc Ock to me. Raimi had us believe that Doc Ock isn’t a bad guy; his evil arms made him do bad things. What was the point? We have scenes that show him looting, fighting; kidnapping Aunt May and MJ, only to have him realize he’s ‘not a monster’ after a one minute speech from Spidey? What a cop out. What happened to the evil mastermind Doc Ock that eventually forms the Sinister Six? And if he’s not really dead at the end, is he going to come back as a good guy? To top it off, it seems that having metal smart-arms fused to your body causes you to develop superhuman strength. Not even a solid haymaker from Spidey can knock this guy out. We all know Spidey pulls his punches against street thugs, but that's not the case here.

Besides the horrible dynamic between our hero and villain, we were graced with another sad rendition of MJ that couldn’t stop whining about Peter even though she’d ‘moved on’. Harry Osborn forgets how distraught he is over his father’s death one minute, and turns into an alcoholic over it the next. And the worst part, to me, we see Peter Parker that’s failing in school? Really? Super genius Parker can’t keep up with regular college students. Get the f*ck out of here, Raimi. Then, only two years after the last movie ended he’s overwhelmed by being Spider-Man and. . . quits. Even to go as far as munching on a hot dog while some bad guys run past him. If the last movie made me think Peter Parker was a whiner, this one makes me feel he’s a wuss.

Spider-Man 3:I really don’t even know where to start. I guess the worst part for me would be that Gwen Stacey has now been reverted to a cameo. Yep, that’s right; the same Gwen Stacey that showed Peter Parker the limitations and consequences of his powers in the comics has been turned into a one dimensional ‘hot girl’ with the sole purpose making MJ jealous. If that wasn’t hard enough to stomach, now we find out Uncle Ben’s real killer wasn’t they guy we’ve thought it was for 40 years.

The rest of my gripes are probably the same as the rest of yours. Since they don’t need explanations, I’ll just list them:

- A Peter Parker that’s full of himself
- A crybaby MJ, yet again
- ‘New’ Goblin Harry Osborn that is plagued with selective amnesia
- Emo Sandman that doesn’t want to hurt anybody . . . except that he constantly does
- Eddie Brock, the Peter Parker wannabe
- Venom, the Spider-Man wannabe
- A convoluted plot
- A song and dance routine
- A ‘cool’ Peter Parker with mascara and greasy hair

If that wasn’t enough, I had to hear Raimi pass the buck to the studio once he realized that fans were disappointed. Is the studio at fault? Of course, but that doesn’t give Raimi a free pass because he’s the one that put it all together.

So far, Raimi has given us the Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Sandman, Venom and the 'New' Goblin as Spidey's villains. Out of those 5, he's wanted us to sympathize with four of them and has portrayed them to be good guys that just do bad things. Whatever happened to villains being inherently evil? Why do they need to be pure of heart for the audience to relate to them? And why does he feel the need to unnecessarily tie them all into Peter's life? They don't on both accounts.

After three disappointing movies, I still felt that there was hope for Spider-Man 4. We all know how to learn from our mistakes. It wouldn’t be too hard to brush past the last three attempts and start making quality Spidey flicks. And contrary to the popular vote, I don't want to see the Lizard OR Kraven in the next movie. That's not what this franchise needs right now, they need to tie up the loose ends that they've already put on film. How hard would it be, really? Leave MJ out of Peter's life except as a sideline friend. Have Gwen as the main love interest. Bring Norman back as the the Green Goblin (sans metal suit); have him KILL Gwen and get away at the end. End the movie with Connors becoming Lizard. With a plot outline like that, I would give Raimi the benefit of the doubt one more time.

That’s what I thought until I heard the latest rumor: Black Cat to be in Spider-Man 4. All of Raimi’s ‘back to basics’ speeches have now gone out the window. It’s obvious to me that Raimi has no idea why Spider-Man has appealed to so many people throughout the years. I’ve tried three times to like these movies, and three times I’ve been let down. Like Raimi’s Spidey, I quit.


27 Yes
27 No
MultiPurposePoni
11/10/2009

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136 Comments

I'm sure some of you will think that all I'm doing is complaining, and I understand that. I could write an article about the good points in these movies, there were alot. I hope you understand the point I'm trying to get at is that we, as comic fans, should not settle for mediocrity. At that is how I would classify the three Spider-Man movies we've had so far. I think it's just time for a new cast, new director and a fresh start on the story.
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 10:24 AM
I do, in fact, understand where you are coming from, multi. Good article. I also don't want to see a spidey 4.

Part 2 was so overrated

tobey was terribly miscast. Spidey has his whiney times, but overall, he isn't a whiney person. He's a new york genius/joker, with a large share of problems. Dock ock is a mad scientist, and raimi turned him into a sad character, that the audience is supposed to sympathize with. when will we get a spidey villain that is just plain bad?

part 3

why do third movies usually suck? This is why there are very few good trilogies out there

Kirsten was an annoying MJ, and there is way too much wining from evey character on screen


supermarioworldE - 11/10/2009, 10:30 AM
Multi@ Hey its just how you feel nothing wrong with that :)

As for how i feel....SM2 is the best CBM...never before or since have i seen a comic book truly spring to life in front of my eyes...in the comics spidey always punched Doc Ock to not much effect so nothing wrong with that translation.

As for not feeling Peter's genius, i feel the main reason for this is removing the Web cartridges...if we saw him making the special fluid and mechanism perhapse we would be introduced further to the comics Peter Parker.

Anyway i think Raimi did a fantastic Job of bringing a difficult character to life on screen :)

Good Article :)
teabag - 11/10/2009, 10:30 AM
@teabag: Removing the web cartridge design had both good and bad reasons. Since they chose to remove it from the mythos, they needed to amplify other aspects of his story to show his intelligence. They have yet to do that.
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 10:48 AM
Multi@ i understand what your saying but then his inteligence was forgotten about for nearly a decade at one point in the comics...in fact it was rarely used upon...saying that it would be nice to see but hardly a reason for the movies to be bad :)

Hopefully (cus i want sm4) we will finaly get some Spider Tracers :)
teabag - 11/10/2009, 10:52 AM
Multi - FINALLY, someone who agrees with me! I've been SCREAMING most of this for god knows how long - FANTASTIC article! The only thing I might have a problem with was you assessment of Alfred Molina - his take on the Doc Ock character was a refreshing twist and the only DECENT thing about SM2.

I'm surprised you didn't go into more depth with the annoying Kirsten Dunst. Mary Jane is supposed to be this uber-hottie. Kirsten doesn't even rate as 'plain' Jane! You were spot on with both her and McGuire's performances though - any more whining and I'm going to PUKE!
loganoneil - 11/10/2009, 11:09 AM
Multi-- Nah, not complaining. It is a well thought out opinion. I agree with everything you have to say except for the "no" to Spider 4. All the Spidey movies have huge problems and at some points change who spiderman is. I heard that Raimi didn't want the web shooters because it wasn't believable for a high school student to make such a thing. Well, Mr. Raimi, they'll believe it if you tell 'em. Plus it's part of Spidey's history that everybody knows. After it all I think the absence of the web shooters was ok. Spidey making his own webs with his body makes him more spidery. Luckily, the webs didn't come out of his ass!

I totally agree that the Black Cat is a bad sign for the next spidey movie regardless of how bad my pants want to see whoever pours herself into that costume. It does kind of sound like it's going to be the same silly party that 3 was. But I'm still glad he's giving it another go. I like Raimi as a filmmaker so I'll give it a chance. If you haven't seen Drag Me to Hell, it is hilarious!

I try to look at CBMs the same way I look at life. There are a lot of things that piss me the [frick] off but I will be a miserable cuss to be around if I let all of them get to me. I save my most visceral anger for the sucky things that stand out the most like, X3, Spiderman 3, Indiana Jones 4, Electra, Catwoman, Wolverine, Watchmen (yikes! Ducks from shoes being thrown), ect...

Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:14 AM
supermarioworldE-- Do I need to repost my article, "2nd times the charm, 3rds are turds"?

Yeah Kirstin isn't "the Jackpot" MJ is supposed to be. And wine is for drinking I say!

Multi what would you think if we could go back in time and replace Mcguire with Gyllenhall? He looks more like comic book spidey. Or even the guy that played the new goblin, whats his name?
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:15 AM
Betty@ i beleive Raimi took the organic web shooter idea from Camerons draft of Spiderman :)

And yeah i loved Drag me to HEll :P
teabag - 11/10/2009, 11:18 AM
@ multi

yeah, not complaining, its your opinion, and you made good arguments. but i have to disagree with a lot of them. like tea said, spidey punches doc ock in the face all the time in the comics, also, we all know that spidey pulls his punches when fighting normal people, otherwise he'd knock their heads into another dimension, lol. and in the comics, sandman isn't just an evil guy. he's a reluctant villain, not for the same reasons, but he is. in fact, the sinister six had to blackmail him to join, and when he resisted doc ock turned him into a glass statue. so he's not COMPLETELY horrible person in the comics. he is, but i wouldn't call him evil.
CorndogBurglar - 11/10/2009, 11:19 AM
teabag-- Oh, I thought he got it from Spidey 2099?

Multi-- btw, this is the type of article I live for. This and breasts.
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:21 AM
CD@ Sandman was also a reserve Avenger :P

I look on movies in a more emotional way then critical...if im entertained i just know it and these movies did it for me....well except SM3 lol :)

Betty@ nah Cameron had a draft for Spidey in 1990 before Spidey 2099 :)
teabag - 11/10/2009, 11:21 AM
Wow, he's such a forward thinker. lol

btw I thought the casting for sandman was pretty spot on but he also kinda looked like Brock from the comics.
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:24 AM
Betty@ Or you could say Brock looks like Sandman :)

and hey at least Cameron had one original idea..badaboom


teabag - 11/10/2009, 11:30 AM
teabag--- AHHH!!!hahahahahahaha! I wish that had sound.
Betty - 11/10/2009, 11:33 AM
Betty@ i keep imagining van dam squeeling like a lil girl and the drums being a squeeky toy lol
teabag - 11/10/2009, 11:35 AM
Teabag that was awesome!

Multi, great article man, and I agree with a lot you've said. Spidey is my favorite character since I was 5 and I've been reading him for the past 21 years. Tobey was never the Parker/Spidey we all grew to love.

Where was the egotistical smart ass responses when Spider-Man is within imminent doom? His Parker was sort of right, except yeah, he never came off as the super intelligent person that he is.


Here's hoping for the best in Spider-Man 4.

At the same time, this is the director's interruption, no this doesn't excuse the monstrosity that was third installment. However, it does grant some personal liberties with the characters, but Rami just did not make the right choices.
Stumblin - 11/10/2009, 11:56 AM
Multi - And you said I was the complainer?..

I don't know that much about the comic relation to the movie, but I'll give it a try..

Look Tobey Maguire does over do it with the sobbing like a little girl. But, who else do you believe has any relation with Peter Parkers nerdy persona.. Only young adults I know who could be casted are Disney kids at best. The Mechanical arms Doc Ock has are attached to his spine and nerves making him less vulnerable to pain.. Losing his intelligent mind, the one who formed the sinister six? The man lost his wife giving him nothing else to live for, making him continually rob and steal to finish his life's work. That's why he was so called "Copped Out" realization from parker.

And to Finish I agree with most parts, sum I'm one-sided. Spider-man 3 was a descent movie in my opinion, even tho Brock/Venom was a failure, But Sandman made that up for me in that movie. So, cheer up because we got now what? Lizard, Mysterio, Black Cat, Carnage???.. Who knows.. ;)
Minotauro - 11/10/2009, 12:52 PM
Well said Multi. I can honestly say that I don't disagree with one thing here.

I was never 100% comfortable with Raimi's take on things. He did a lot of things that I wouldn't have done and there was some very poor writing and decision making.
The entire franchise could have been a lot better than it was, and that's a fact.

But I sort of echo Betty's thoughts in that I try not to let the little issues get to me. There are much worse things in the Marvel movie verse than the things you mentioned. Like how they ruined Doom, Galactus, Dark Phoenix. Elektra's magical self propeling, self guided sai. Compared to those things, the [frick] ups in Spider man, as numerous as they are, are relatively minor.
AND in the case of Raimi's Spider - Man there were some little things that were well done. His JJ Jameson was SPOT ON perfect. Brilliantly casted, brilliantly acted.
Aunt May and Uncle Ben? Perfection. Couldn't ask for better. Spider-Man's suit was cool and well played. The look of the webs, the stretchiness and the ways he uses them.. very well done.

So anyway I think the crux of all this ultimately ammounts to is that what we all want is a movie that is at least as good as the book, if not better.
We fans are recreating a standard between ourselves for how these films should be judged, and hopefully someday Hollywood will learn to respect that and use it to guide what they do

DarthMulder - 11/10/2009, 1:26 PM
Preach on DarthMulder-san.
Betty - 11/10/2009, 1:42 PM
i liked the movie but i didint like them was killing eddie brock/venom and harry

poni- i think they should finish what they started and then later on redo the movie with a younger cast and probably different villians and different storys
flames809 - 11/10/2009, 1:54 PM
All these movies could've been saved if Parker shot the webbing out of his ass.
imnotwearinghockeypants - 11/10/2009, 1:56 PM
Nice article dude..I disagree with you! But you explain your opinions very well..I guess Im just not a direct comic translation stickler. Aside from that, I don't think Maguire over acted at all, I think he did a great job, but again, different strokes. Like Tea, I rate Spider man 2 as one of the best CBM's we have seen so far. So it changes stuff from the comics, big deal! Show me a CBM that doesn't and I'll show you a good performance in GI Joe(sorry Lee:) Basically what Im saying is, If you disliked the general feel of the movie(acting, direction, effects, what have you) thats fine, but if you dislike these movies based solely on their deviations from the characters in the comics, then surely you hold that conviction to every CBM out there? I mean, which ones DO you like? You name one, and I'll list just as many deviations from the comic on which its based that you just did in your article. (well, not quite as many in some cases, but I'll give it a go:)
RorMachine - 11/10/2009, 1:59 PM
@Ror: I'm by no means a 'Comic Purist'. I believe that some things NEED change to make them believable on screen. Watchmen is a good example.

That being said, to change something for the sole sake of changing it is a futile effort. We became fans of the characters we read about because of who they are and how they were written. If you change their essence in the transition from comic to screen, you loose any attachment you have to the character. For example, Cyclops in all three X-Men movies. Besides his name being Scott Summers and him firing optic blames from him eyes, there is no relation to the essence of the role James Marsters portrayed and the character I've read about all these years.
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 2:05 PM
Dead on, Maguire's performance never hit the right note for me but beggars can't be choosers I guess...
JohnnyKrypton - 11/10/2009, 2:06 PM
@Johnny: I'm glad you said that, because we as comic fans HAVE become 'beggars' to the movie industry. We bitch and moan about wanting truthfulness to the source material, but when they don't deliver we STILL buy the tickets and the DVDs. We want to see our favorite characters on screen so badly, that we've learned to accept below par films.

Simply put, we've settled. And that's a horrible thing to do in life.
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 2:08 PM
Nice job Tea. I posted that gif over a week ago. ;P
SirPrize - 11/10/2009, 2:11 PM
stopped reading (glancing) right here -

"- Emo Sandman that doesn’t want to hurt anybody . . . except that he constantly does
- Eddie Brock, the Peter Parker wannabe
- Venom, the Spider-Man wannabe"

Really dude?

Venom's a wannabe Spiderman? Emo Sandman?

Really? The guy's daughter is dying - his character was actually built up really well. Fcuk i'm angry today.
Keven - 11/10/2009, 2:12 PM
this article should be shredded, burned and buried. lol. j/K. all i can say is no cb movie has been true. they're all going to have adjustments. but i do agree with the whining but not that it shouldn't be made.
droopy1317 - 11/10/2009, 2:13 PM
Really? I though Marsters nailed Cyc..a self righteous douche with an over inflated opinion of himself:)..ah no, he was lacking in some ways. But this is the thing. There really is no definitive portrayal of a character from teh comics that has been around for so long. Most of these characters have been around for 20+ years and have gone through many changes, and many interpretations from writer to writer. Granted, there will always be the general things kept that make em tick, their motivations and what have you..their essence as you say, and the movies keep them as far as I can see.. they just give them a movie make over. Everyone likes different aspects of every character. You say you want to see Peter Parker portrayed a certain way..Well, say I don't! Say I really like what Raimi and Maguire did with him! That disagreement over some character traits shouldn't tarnish an entire adaptation for anyone I don't think. Bottom line is, If you don't look at the movies as an alternative take on these characters..like the Ultimates say..your going to keep on being disappointed. You say we have "settled", I say we have gotten some fantastic movies. Tomatoe..Tomato.
RorMachine - 11/10/2009, 2:17 PM
you wrote quite a bit of stuff though. so that's cool..And isn't the whole purpose that Brock is dilusional? he thought Gwen was his GF when she didn't even know him that well - the guy was supposed to be a wannabe. Brock as a character was put together pretty well. Sandman was put together even better I think. Sure they rushed Venom - I think the only reasons Spidey 3 didn't succeed were Harry's involvement and the whole EMO PARKER aspect. Don't rag on the villians - it wasn't their fault.
Keven - 11/10/2009, 2:17 PM
ah but the wacthman had the bule man tho lol thats the only part i woke up for my bad lol.
as for the rest am with yeah!

lc - 11/10/2009, 2:29 PM
@Ror: The point of the article was to give my opinion, and my opinion only. If you feel differently and you liked the movies, that's great! I know alot of people that love 'em. But no one will change my disappointment over what I've seen in the last three SM movies. If all these points tarnished the franchise for me, so be it.

I don't understand how directors and studios say 'that costume won't work' or 'that villain's story won't adapt well on screen' if they have no factual evidence to base it off of. If no big budget movie has tried it, who can honestly say it won't work?

If any movie is to be a model for how CBM's should be produced, directed and portrayed it's Iron Man. Modernizing the story without changing the essence of the characters or drastically changing the source's story line.

I'm still waiting for a director with some balls to grab the Spider-Man franchise and say 'I'm doing this as close to the comics as possible because the comics are what made this character popular.' If it doesn't work, oh well. But at least then we'll have evidence to back up why it won't work.
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 2:29 PM
I think if all you do is complain about what they make, refuse to watch it and say how it can be better that its like offering nothing but negative reinforcement to a child. You will never get a perfect representation, ever..its like waiting for the perfect woman, its not going to happen in your lifetime. IMO the best you can hope for is a good movie that widens the character's appeal, which is what CBMs are all about. Its not about selling the character, its about selling the actor, the drama and the story. You want to know why Spiderman is among the greatest CBMs? Because its like one of the top 10 movies of all time in terms of revenue and like it's representation or not it did a hell of a lot better to bring comics to the mainstream than Watchman.
bladenite78 - 11/10/2009, 2:31 PM
Good article, even thou I don’t completely agree with you, you have very good points. I must say I love the first Spider-man, the story was interesting, I like the cast, with the exception of MJ, and the special effects were good (back then). The only thing that bothered me was the Green Goblin mask; William Defoe could have made a better goblin without it.

When I first watch the sequel I didn’t like it for the same reasons you don’t, the noble hearted Dock Ok was not my cup of tea, but after I watched it for the second time it grew on me, I ended up loving Alfred Molina’s take on the character. I related to the problems of the other characters too: economical (Peter Parker), frustrated aspirations (MJ), and to have to overcome the loss of your father (Harry Osborne).

There is nothing good I can say about the third part, it was disappointing, Eddie Brock was even a worst miscast than MJ, Uncle Ben’s “real” murder plot was stupid, and the special effects were lame.

To me Rami has made 2 great movies and one really bad one, I wish he had let the franchise rest, but I’m still willing to give him a chance with the next Spider-man installment.

Verdugo - 11/10/2009, 2:31 PM
Dude i totally agree. They shouldnt do a 4th one cause they already [frick]ed up the franchise enough.

They should just reboot it
Watchtower31 - 11/10/2009, 2:33 PM
Poni

I dug the article. It hit a lot of the issues I have with the series. I agree totally that these movies got worse with every installment. I'm not going to rehash everything that's already been said. I will say that Raimi's obsession with giving every villain a redemption storyline is assinine and completely ruined the last two movies for me... well that and the fact that Spiderman 3 was one of the worst movies I've seen, period. Which is why I will no longer support this franchise with my money, or my time. Again, nice job. You speak for many.
BillyBlack - 11/10/2009, 2:38 PM
Well said Multi Willem Defoe was awesome in SM
MJ is horrible in all 3 acting and looks. I did love Alfred Molina in SM2 which I think is the best spidey flick by far. SM3 was just a mess of a movie and what the hell is a new goblin why could Raimi not just put him in the original goblin suit not the metal suit. Raimi could of earned some points back for that.
Tobey just doesn't do it for me either. Raimi should stick to horror/comedy everybody loves evil dead right!
scarface - 11/10/2009, 2:40 PM
Oh yeah Im not trying to get you to change your opinions of course, Im just debating! Iron Man did a pretty good job..but there are still a lot of differences from the source! They pretty much nailed Stark..which is obviously the most important thing, and why the other things don't seem to matter so much..still, they are there for the nit picking. Just like TDK, which changed just as much if not more than the Spidey movies.
RorMachine - 11/10/2009, 2:42 PM
I think I've been a big influence on Ror!? He's now giving his thoughts on others opinions!! ;D
Minotauro - 11/10/2009, 2:46 PM
Great Article Multi- I totally agree why the [frick] are all the bad guys to be sympathized with ... [frick] them .. they are the bad guys for a reason ... because they are BAD... End of story... At least in Superman Returns Lex was no one to sympathize with ... ;-)
thegreek - 11/10/2009, 2:51 PM
Iv always given my thoughts on other peoples opinions..isn't that called having a conversation?
RorMachine - 11/10/2009, 2:52 PM
Great artcle MULTI - I actually agree with every single word...however, in my opinion the good points in the first two movies outweigh these by a hell of a lot! Despite that the issues you've raised are major ones and I for one have always hated Maguire as Spider-Man! Bret Harrison or Jake Gyllenhall would be much better choices and with McGuire nearing 40 I'd like to see a new, younger actor take over ASAP!

Although I'm desperate for Norman Osborn to return I think that should be saved for the end of the fourth and then the fifth movie so they can keep the focus on a new villain in 4 (hopefully Electro or Scorpion!) But if Osborn does don the suit to become the Green Goblin again then he better wear something a lot better than the crappy costume from the first movie! The comic book version would easily work on the big screen anyway IMO!

Anyway as far as Im concerned Raimi has made two great movies and one crap one - if Spider-Man 4 is no good then its time for his ass to be kicked out the door but I think that he deserves just one more chance...
JoshW - 11/10/2009, 2:55 PM
MULTI @ You've got BALLZ man, kudos dude!

And a HI 5, but i cant agree lol, waiting for LIZARD & KRAVEN in SPIDEY 4!!! Hey it might happen! : D

Cool article though dude, and where did it just pop up from??!!
LEEE777 - 11/10/2009, 2:56 PM
Multi@ ok i could agree whit a lot you have said. but now i want you to admit that Mr. Ditkovich is great! Cmon, you HAD to admit it! Hahahahahahaha
MisterFixit - 11/10/2009, 2:59 PM
SP@ lol... i posted that one twice months ago but it never gets old lol :P


teabag - 11/10/2009, 3:02 PM
I thought overall the Spiderman movies were moderately bad. The first one was really good IMO, but yeah, I agree that Tobey's portrayal of Spidey was way off, as was many of the other characters. That has really been my overall problem with the series as far as source material goes, but the problem with these movies goes way beyond source material. They suffer mainly from bad directing, bad story/plots, bad acting, and bad editing. Spiderman 3 pretty much sums all that up into one horrible movie.

...and I completely disagree with bringing Norman back in the 4th movie as the main villain on the grounds that it has been done already and I would rather like to see a new villain grace the screen. I also disagree about the Lizard, but I do agree that Kraven should be kept out. I just don't see how he could carry a movie as the main villain. Obviously, the Lizard couldn't do it alone because he really doesn't have any human qualities while in Lizard form.




Macksimus - 11/10/2009, 3:05 PM
@poni

that is the perfect article teaser pic. made my day

grif - 11/10/2009, 3:06 PM
Multi its like you reached into my soul and put it on a canvas i feel the exact same way. Only thing is for what they did I still like the first one good. 2nd one was great and well i dont need to speak of the 3rd. ;] but i still feel that exact way they butchered qualities in the movie that i love in the comics. Tbag makes a point in the comics they did lose the whole boy genious shtick for a while
Set2Fallfirst - 11/10/2009, 3:09 PM
nag nag nag....u sound like my (future)wife!!! but i couldnt agree with u more on some points and disagree more on others!
Dunst, Emo Parker , Natural Webshooters(dispatching Peter's genius of creating web shooters for the sake of a get to the point story.what ever happened to mixing special web shooters for Hydroman and Morbius etc.?) , Venom , SP3 , Non-witty Spiderman(lame...and i do mean lame.as in not funny one liners) , Venom, Godzilla Sandman , Venom and the guy who played Venom(Topher Grace) and the guy who Topher Grace played(Venom)...WERE ALL AWFUL.

That being said...to see an almost real life JJ Jameson, A perfect costume(maybe the only other perfect costume, other than Ironman's in the movie world), CGI(we get our money's worth with these scenes),portraying of Uncle Ben's story in part 1&2(until they fu-cked up in 3), SP2(greatest after TDK and prolly tied with IM), Ending of Spiderman1 where he blanks that "Central Park Frog" to be spiderman(i loved that part), Spiderman swinging in the city(no matter how simple...everyone loves it). these my friends IMO outweigh the Negatives(at least for now). Despite many attempts to ruin the Positives of the Spiderman franchise...by the Negative team's Star Player(Venom)...i still hold the franchise in good sprits. I will gladly take the Negatives listed in part 1&2(but certainly not part 3) over the negatives of Wolverine Orgins!!!
Kes - 11/10/2009, 3:13 PM
@multi Raimi says he loves spidey so much and wants to stay so true. But he really hasnt all i have to say is in spidey 4 if he is a whiny little bitch again and the plot dynamic betwen him and MJ is the same im done. Seriously Peter hasnt even had a steady girlfriend in the series yet. and he is actually a little play boy. He acts as if he act hold all these things together but there are so many chances where he can. Seriously Spidey MAN UP stop complaining and DO.
Set2Fallfirst - 11/10/2009, 3:15 PM
Raimi has said Peter is gonna be more confident now and realise he is spiderman....like others have said the good outway the minor bad when it comes to these movies, Raimi def deserves another chance :)
teabag - 11/10/2009, 3:18 PM
Nice article man. A lot of it actually makes sence. But i'm not with you on the sandman thing. And toby is definatally the wrong choice for Spidey
Spilox - 11/10/2009, 3:20 PM
I agree with most of what you said here.

While I'm okay with the SM movies overall, as a fan of the comic, I've always had an issue with the people playing the characters and how they changed the plot for the big screen. I do think that Willem Defoe was fantastic, however, and I wasn't overly put off by how they depicted Sandman.

My biggest concern for how they do SM4 obviously is Black Cat. Felicia is one of my all time favorites, and so far I haven't seen anyone in the running that I think would live up to her. There's so much they could do with her...I'm just petrified they're going to screw her up.
Vaia - 11/10/2009, 3:25 PM
Multi - While you're definitely in the minority in not anxiously waiting to see the next installment in the Spidey film franchise, you do have some good points.

I think that Raimi got caught up in trying to make Pete into an average guy to make him appear more sympathetic. The reason I am not bothered by this is that I understand and accept that when an adaptation of a property is produced in a medium other than that of its origin, concessions are going to be made. Everyone was initially so excited to finally get a big budget Spidey film that we let a lot of things slide. As such, it's as if we've grown accustomed to viewing Raimi's film as a Spideyverse unto itself!

Marvel's self-produced films are slowly correcting this, but with the film rights farmed out to the major Hollywood studios, this pattern seems unlikely to be broken! The box office results are just too strong!! X-Men:The Last Stand, while crap, was the highest grossing of the three X movies! With that type of tainted evidence, it's unlikely that things will change anytime soon, barring a Kevin Feige-type gaining a high ranking, influential position with either Sony or Fox! Seems we're locked in to this particuler style of Spidey on the big screen for the forseeable future!
JonF - 11/10/2009, 3:26 PM
Vaia@ im worried people are not gonna disconect Black Cat from Catwoman...there far too similar imo :)
teabag - 11/10/2009, 3:27 PM
Y'all say spiderman 1 is so good. If you haven't seen Batman 1 (Burton) in a while they are almost identical beat for beat.
Betty - 11/10/2009, 3:31 PM
tea-- That is a valid worry. People are idiots.
Betty - 11/10/2009, 3:32 PM
i agree with josh@. 2 good movies and one crap one. if the fourth is good then it will 3 out of 4 which ill take any day of the week. if it sucks it will be 2 and 2 and a 500 record means time for a coaching change.
superdog - 11/10/2009, 3:32 PM
@leee yeah he has balls ffs lol
and i think his rigth in all!

yeah i know its the first for me
but hey ya gotta love me lol
lc - 11/10/2009, 3:32 PM
Betty@ and bears.....




maybe not lol :P
teabag - 11/10/2009, 3:40 PM
haha, where do you get these wonderful toys?
Betty - 11/10/2009, 3:43 PM
Tom looks so happy to get a taste of papa bear's porridge!
BillyBlack - 11/10/2009, 3:46 PM
When Peter Parker cries it gets me off.

take that in.
Keven - 11/10/2009, 3:46 PM
The thing is, movies and comics are a very different medium, and not everything that works in one medium will work in another. So of course there's going to be differences from the comics whether for good or bad. It has to appeal to mainstream audiences too, remember?
bubastis237 - 11/10/2009, 3:55 PM
Betty/Billy@ lmao



:)
teabag - 11/10/2009, 4:03 PM
teabag my man

You make my heart sing! That has to be the happiest moment this galaxy, or any other, has seen.

For you my friend


BillyBlack - 11/10/2009, 4:12 PM
Billy@ lmfao....man i wanna hug a mountain...epic

altho one of them freaky bears was at the top.....



:P
teabag - 11/10/2009, 4:18 PM
"He wants to make love to the mountain."


BillyBlack - 11/10/2009, 4:28 PM
Billy--that was great.
Betty - 11/10/2009, 4:31 PM
Betty

You guys make it tough to keep up :)
BillyBlack - 11/10/2009, 4:33 PM
you didn't like the first one.... and you still watched the second and the third....... maybe it,s time for you and everyone who agrees with you, to stop watching CB-movies!!!
As I read before I believe too that the story-line of the comics can be changed to make a better movie!

And this happens often! so If you only want to have the same story-line as the comics.... STOP WATCHING THE MOVIES!!

I am always amazed that people want to see follow-up movies if thet didn't like the first one, and than complaining about it........????


phenomenon - 11/10/2009, 4:37 PM
Multi: You make some excellent points here. You did a fine job of outlining them in a constructive fashion. While I personally enjoyed the first two films, they certainly had their flaws. After the rancid filth that was the last film, I'm very leery of another one, and it will take an awful lot to get me into a theater for another one. Like Daltrey said: I won't be fooled again.

I agree with your main point: it's time to bring in a fresh director and a fresh cast that might actually understand why Spidey has been among comics' most popular characters for nearly 50 years. Raimi has proven that he doesn't.
comicb00kguy - 11/10/2009, 4:41 PM
I SAY MAKE THE MOVIE PUT IT OUT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS
GUNSMITH - 11/10/2009, 4:43 PM
OOOOOOH I WANT SPIDEY 4...




;O
teabag - 11/10/2009, 4:55 PM
How many CBMs were made previous to the last ten to fifteen years!? How many quality ones were there!? While I know the article, as well as everyone's comments are straight opinion, why doesn't everyone take a step back to be thankful for the fact that we even HAVE any CBM movies...let alone GOOD ones! Let alone SHITTY ones! We all should enjoy this period of time where Hollywood and the film industry have almost no sense of originality and original storytelling, and have to go to comics/cartoons to come up with a successful idea or franchise. The time will come when the fad will burn out and it will be another ten to twenty years before the industry goes back to comics for ideas(or just remakes already made films a la the Batman franchise). Good article.

Bottom line:
Spiderman 1- Cool to see, campy, and fun. Goblin costume SUCKED
Spiderman 2- Great movie. AVENGE ME!!!
Spiderman 3- Crap. Douche filled crap. Wasted Venom. Only good part was the intro of the Sandman when he comes together for the first time. Beautifully done and incredibly badass sequence. Never gets enough credit.


Banner123 - 11/10/2009, 4:58 PM
Oh yeah, and as everyone has already said and obviously knows, to not use the Lizard in 4 would be one of the dumbest moves ever...
Banner123 - 11/10/2009, 4:59 PM
Banner@ hell yeah :0

Im still partying....Spidey 4 is gonna be awesome..




:D
teabag - 11/10/2009, 5:17 PM
Spiderman was good, Spiderman 2 was just Spiderman 1 again and, like everyone knows, Spiderman 3 sucked scrotum.
Ryguy88 - 11/10/2009, 5:40 PM
multi
Thats why u don't write for New York Times, you reviews suck, Spiderman 1 and 2 were one of the best comic book movies, Spiderman 3 was not the way people talk about, movies are not like ur comics books that u hide below ur bed, thanks God I never read one of them, because it would be terrible to never be happy with a movie, like u guys are
brazilianbatman - 11/10/2009, 5:53 PM
can everyone quit talking about peter crying in the movies? its not like he cries everytime someone calls him a name or he stubs his [frick]in toe. he cries at times that just about any guy would cry. if your father, or father figure died, are you telling me its ridiculous to cry?? if your best friend dies, are you telling me its unacceptable to cry? get out of here with that nonsense.

@ brazilianbatman

you might not like multi's review, but they are valid arguments (for the most part). and maybe if you DID pick up a comic then your opinions might mean something to people around here. he didn't like the spidey films, lay off him. and what comic movie website are you visiting where the people posting don't like any comic book movies?? because it obvioulsy isn't here.
CorndogBurglar - 11/10/2009, 6:04 PM
Multi- Damn you hit quite a few nails on the head didn't you. I agree with the comments about the villains being more antihero then villain. This needs to change, stop killing off villains, and stop converting them to good guys at the end of every movie. I do love Spiderman 2, but the scene where he takes off his mask annoyed the piss out of me. I have Spiderman 2 in my top ten, but subtle things like the punches he threw at Doc Ock were valid points
ASSASSIN666 - 11/10/2009, 6:22 PM
now this is the multi I fell in love with!
you make alot of good points, and I really want them to
start over with the whole franchise but lets be real here, it won't happen, there has only been a handful of movies that stuck to the direct storyline of the source material, watchmen,300,iron man(close enough), from hell
just as examples, but spider-man is tricky,I like all the spidey movies(yes even the embarassment called spider-man 3),I really belive we are all going to be surprised when spidey 4 comes out, we'll be all talking about how good the story and action blended together, with a nice mix of the spidey humor and a great villian or two..but then maybe not.. We will all know for sure once we all see the first spider-man 4 trailer, or maybe not because I was ultra impressed with the spider-man 3 trailer (but then look what happened). That's the thing with CBM's it is a gamble everytime and i say kudos to the director's who have the balls to take that challange,good or bad, no matter what the outcome I am ready and willing to see spider-man 4.
peterparker420 - 11/10/2009, 6:48 PM
Well, lets let the ladies weigh in here.

S1. I loved that film! I actually thought that Toby was rightt for that film. He seemd to embody the young Peter Parker perfectly. I was ok with Dunst as MJ in that one, but I would have preferred seeing Gwen in that one instead of MJ. She should have died.

Dafpe was outstanding! He was perfect as Gobby! I too didn't care for teh suit that much, but it was practical. I mean I don't see anyone complaining about how Batman's suit looked in TDK, but it was very different than his traditional look.

S2-Molena was brilliant, i love how they added more depth to hhis character! And Harry'sdescent towards madness was a brilliant subplot! The main problem with it was Dunst, she is like acting black hole.

S3- Was an abortion, but it did have it's saving points.
My favorite part of the film was how brilliantly they oirtrayed Sandman. They took a brutish, one dimensional villain and gave him depth! Ramai is deffinately aat is finest when he focuses on the personal stories.
My least favorite are as follows:
Harry amd Peter's tagteam battle at the end.
Mj
Gwen
Dancing disco Pete with special crying bit.

That's it. I say give him another chance.
THEPHOENIX - 11/10/2009, 6:58 PM
Interesting Article Poni. Couldn't diagree with you more as I felt this franchise was very well done (except for Spidey 3 that was a wee bit rushed), but I respect your opinion and you do make good points. Tobey could have done better, but I doubt theyll find someone better to prortray Parker without delving into the Gossip Girl era of crappy male leads, naw'mean?
Shadowelfz - 11/10/2009, 7:28 PM
MultiPurposePoni I agree on 99% of what u said. I too think the Peter Parker role choice was horrible. Tobey SUCKS as Parker. The comic book Peter Parker was way cooler and not as nerdy looking. And Kirsten Dunst as MJ was totally wrong too. MJ was a knockout w/ a huge rack. But dont get me wrong, im still a fan of the franchise and am pumped for #4. I just want to see the more smart ass friendly neighborhood spider-man. Not the dweeby crybaby wuss-man like he was in Spidey 2 & 3.

Comickid65 - 11/10/2009, 7:35 PM
Thanks for all the input guys! Most of you make very valid points as to why these movies were successful. Unfortunately, I'll be skipping out on SM4 until I hear the reviews.

@brazilianbatman: Let me get this straight. . . you've NEVER read a comic book and THAT'S why you're happy with the movies? To top it off, you make fun of people on this site you like to read comics? Did you happen to overlook the name of this website? You're a tool.

Just because you don't agree with my editorial you think I'm a bad journalist? What have you ever written that isn't proliferated with double negatives, run on sentences and misspellings? Why don't you try mastering the English language before you attempt to criticize someone's writing style.

Any time you want to compare resumes, let me know :)
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 8:14 PM
brazilianbatman

teabag has a nice picture of you above.

Dancing for nickles while Multi and the gang throw bologna slices at your grandma's ass. Or is that her face? tough call. Maybe the New York Times can clarify. New Reader Poll... was it her ass or her face?

or is this the return of supermike?
BillyBlack - 11/10/2009, 8:20 PM
I kind of liked Molina's Ock, but I didn't like that Raimi made the tentacles evil and Ock misunderstood. Ock is a psycho, plain and simple.

Venom I could have done without.
Parkers whining and crying made me want to stick a fukcing knife in him. Cry about that, bitch.

Get rid of Dunst, bring on Gwen Stacy.

Kill aunt may...horribly...like by a taxi or something, right up in the fukcing air with her.

BrazilianBatman can eat shit from his mothers ass.
gtrman - 11/10/2009, 9:15 PM
@betty

3rd's are turds, he he




Honestly, can anyone name at least ten good trilogies out there?
supermarioworldE - 11/10/2009, 10:09 PM
Off the top of my head?

Star Wars, LOTR, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, The Godfather, Evil Dead, Three Colors Trilogy, Die Hard, Bourne Trilogy, The Man with no Name
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 10:20 PM
ummmmm i don't know if anyone knew this...but they mention Eddie Brock's name in the first movie "eddie's been trying to get a shot of spiderman all week"

but in the third movie they all act like they've never seen him before?.....good job Raimi
GhostKILLERgx7 - 11/10/2009, 10:36 PM
@ supermario

10? It's not like there are that many trilogies to begin with but here goes...

1. The Bourne Trilogy
2. The Godfather Trilogy
3. The first four Rocky's
4. Back to the Future trilogy
5. Lord of the Rings trilogy
6. The Ocean's Eleven, Twelve and Thirteen
7. The original Star Wars Trilogy (4,5,6)
8. The Hannibal Lector trilogy (Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal & Red Dragon)
9. Die Hard trilogy- 1,2,3
10. The first three Rambos

If you do not like those here are a couple more:
Star Wars 1,2,3
Matrix
Indiana Jones 1,2,3
The original Superman movies
As soon as Chris Nolan finishes his third Batman movie

Just let me know if you need anymore I am sure I can come up with a couple more and to answer your question yes someone can name 10 good trilogies..... BOOM!!

And ya I know a couple of those trilogies maybe have 2 really good ones and one decent one, but I figure 2 great films and 1 ok film is enough to call it a good trilogy.


GambitDonkeyPunch - 11/10/2009, 10:36 PM
By the way Multipurpose had not posted his yet when I started writing mine.... I did that all on my own and I left out:

Harry Potter (never seen any but I hear they are good)
and all the Jack Ryan films (Sum of all Fears..... and so forth)
GambitDonkeyPunch - 11/10/2009, 10:38 PM
hey dude the one to blame is the writer not the actors hey but i totally agree with you about mj
Weiner123 - 11/10/2009, 10:43 PM
hey GhostKILLERgx7 what scene does this take place in [frick] i dont have the movie lol i dont konw why i typed that oh well [frick] me
Weiner123 - 11/10/2009, 10:45 PM
[frick] [frick] [frick] [frick] sometimes movie make me so mad i just wanna shot my self do that lil wanye stuff hehe
Weiner123 - 11/10/2009, 10:50 PM
@Weiner: I believe Robbie says that line to J. Jameson when Peter walks into the Dailey Bugle for the first time.
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 10:50 PM

Weiner123 - 11/10/2009, 10:55 PM
Good or bad it doesn't matter, Raimi will make another 70+ million dollars on Spiderman 4 and we will all be contributing to that number and you know it!
GambitDonkeyPunch - 11/10/2009, 11:00 PM
@Gambit: Actually, I didn't see SM3 in theaters nor did I purchase the movie. . . so I'm glad I'm not a a part of your consensus :)
MultiPurposePoni - 11/10/2009, 11:02 PM
@ multi

i think brazilianbatman must not know the meaning of the word "editorial".
CorndogBurglar - 11/10/2009, 11:05 PM
You raise many good points here multi. Chiefly among them are the casting of Peter and MJ, although tobey has the right look he always seems to be over acting...and dunst well my mother always said that if you can't say something nice you shouldn't say anything at all.

That said I thought the first two were decent enough movies. Could they have been better, yes, but overall I was happy with them. Perhaps it's me settling, or perhaps it's my fondness for the character but I think they were well done, there were many changes but I felt that the stories themselves resonated well on their own right. Sure Tobey's parker is a bit mopier than stan's but I've always felt he should be, I mean absolutely everything that could go wrong in his life has, he's a walking symbol of murphy's law. But that's just my interpretation of the character, and it seems that is also Rami's as well.
I've always seen peter as incredibly nervous, hence his constant banter and I enjoyed that Tobey tried to illustrate that...but he over did it.

With all that said though...I can't get myself excited for another installment, I hardly bother to even look at the articles about the new movie, in fact I've only read yours because of my respect for you. Perhaps then that is a sign that the only reason I enjoyed the first two spidy flicks was because my love of the character could cause me to gloss over its faults, I don't know.
thwhtGuardian - 11/10/2009, 11:12 PM
Brazilian Batman - Is an asshole... anybody... anybody?
thegreek - 11/10/2009, 11:21 PM
I concur whole heartedly.

thwhtGuardian - 11/10/2009, 11:29 PM
Agreed
gtrman - 11/10/2009, 11:38 PM
I loved Spiderman 2 but I've got to agree with some of your points. I dont know the reasoning for changing the web shooters though, it was nt outlandish or anything but oh well.

I dont know why people go on about having to read a comic to know something about CBMs though. Until I watched Hellboy I'd only heard the name from the crappy Playstation game, now Hellboy and BPRD are my favourite books. I still think the movies are good even though Del Toro doesnt end them well and the characters are drasticlly changed from the books.

The problem as Multi said with SM is Raimi's myopic view of characters have redeeming qualities. To me Sandman was well cast but poorly handled. The studio must sit Raimi down and make him watch a montage of famous screen villains then he'll realise that people like their bad guys to be bad guys. Even though Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader, he was known to the world as Vader first.

The Dark Knight is the pinnacle of CBMs in my opinion even though Nolan changed stuff it all worked in unison. I know a lot of people complain about the detective issue but i dont recallKeaton doing any detective work either especially since the joker has a tendency to announce his arrival.
breakUbatman - 11/10/2009, 11:54 PM
@multi/gambit

Godfather 3 wasn't very good.
Matrix revolutions was terrible
Rocky franchise was not a trilogy
Superman franchise was not a trilogy
Indiana Jones(unfortunately) is no longer a trilogy


but i guess it's all up to opinion.

And yes, I suppose that if the first two films in a trilogy are good, and the third is at least OK, then it is a good trilogy.
supermarioworldE - 11/11/2009, 12:08 AM
Im right there with you MultiPurposePoni :) though i did like Doc Oc in Spidy 2 i do agree that there was alot more to do with that character and OF COURSE Raimi committed crime of many comic movies in killing the villains


My biggest complaint with the movies has always been Toby as Spider-man. Peter is intelligent, and i imagine is into sci-fi and so on, but he isnt a mopey and pathetic. This is a guy who stands up for himself and always has a quick come back. He just didnt have the strength to fight a*holes like Flash. Toby, with his terribly monotoned voice, plays Peter as a "pus*y" (something i dont actually say, but here it is right) who allows anyone to beat him around.


I always thought that Topher Grace, similar to how he is in 70s show, would have been a far better choice. He plays a geek who can successfully deliver funny come backs and act goofy at times BUT can become incredible serious and believably stand up for himself and others, something i never believed with Toby.


I also agree that Dunst isn't very good in the films, and they should have gone with Gwen first.

As for Spidey 3, well i try not to think about that horrible movie
Sektos - 11/11/2009, 3:55 AM
BrazilianBatman is an ASSHOLE....let the war begin :)
teabag - 11/11/2009, 4:20 AM
A war on BrazilianBatman's asshole? I thought those Brazilians like it in the backdoor. Count me in. =P
SirPrize - 11/11/2009, 7:24 AM
This is to the writer of the article at the top of the page.

First off let me say that I found the 3rd Spiderman movie a HUGE disappointment.

Spiderman 1: Spiderman (the comic) debuted in August of 1962, A totally different time then today. If that Spiderman/Peter Parker was portrayed in the film, it would have been an awful movie. Peter Parker a genius in Empire State University...what? Why not M.I.T. or Harvard. In the comic he built his own web-shooter after the Spider bite "gave" him the knowledge to reproduce the web chemically...I wouldn't have found that believable. Of course they made him more average in intelligence!
How does an nerd act? There are many types of nerd. I should know I was one. Peter was an awkward, clumsy, book worm. The only thing they didn't follow was the book worm, which I already touched on. Maguire did a fine job and those "one liners" that you said wasn't what Spiderman did...go back and read those comics. They are full of them. Peter was a nerd, Spidey had some corny one liners.
Ok, MJ should never have been introduced. Dunst is a blond anyway; she should have played Gwen Stacy. I wouldn't have minded seeing her die then. The only reason why MJ was portrayed was because she was the character everyone knew. Not many people, who were not die hard comic fans, would have any idea who Gwen Stacy was. I actually argued it when Dunst in an interview said that MJ should have a death scene in the next movie. Obviously she never read a comic and wasn't interested in continuing in the franchise. At least they stayed with the story that MJ lived next to the Parker's.

Defeo as Harry Osborne, I like him very much, but if they put Defeo in a skintight outfit with a rubber mask, that would have sucked soooo bad! At least with the helmet, it actually looked like the Goblin from the comics.

Spiderman 2: Doc Ock...you have a problem with the fact that Spidey punched him and it didn't knock him out. Well, you said it yourself. Spidey pulled his punches on common thugs. The movie portrayed Ock as someone Peter looked up to...and you are wondering why he didn't put his fist "through" his head. As for his insanity, which Ock was in comics, was portrayed as a person who talks and responds to robotic arms

Crazy - Check
Megalomaniac - Check
Genius - Check

What's the problem? He didn't form a group of 5 other villains to go after Spiderman? Yeah...that would make sense in a big budget film (sarcasm).

Peter having confidence problems that cause him to loose his powers. Well, hate to do this to you, but that wasn't a Raimi plot. That was a story taken right out of the comics. It happened a couple issues after he was endowed with the Uni-Power and gave Spidey cosmic powers. Well I guess Raimi didn't want a Silver Surfer movie so he left that part out and used the part of the story with plot. How dare Raimi portray a hero that, when Stan Lee created him stated, "I think the reason why everyone can relate to Spiderman is because he is a regular person with regular problems at home, problems at school, problems with his love life, lets face it, the guy had problems", Stan Lee's words not mine!

As for Peter failing in his studies, well I addressed that in the beginning and I think I just re-in-forced it with when I wrote how Raimi was portraying a regular person thrust-ed with the responsibility of being a superhero.

Spiderman 3: Venom...ehh.. Give me a minute on this one.

Okay, this one is gonna be a tuff one to defend. 1st off, Sandman's origin was pretty clos, but not accurate. He did turn to a life of crime for his daughter. I agree that they made him bit whiny, but I'm not sure if you know this or not, but Sandman is now a reserve Avenger. They made him seem like a monster in the comic because he was a villain. They are supposed to be evil. Heck, Spidey and Sandman actually teamed up a couple times, even once to take down the Sinister Six!!

Venom...ehhhh....Still can't get this one out yet...

Harry Osborne, well, I can't argue with you on this one. They did make him a lush and the whole amnesia thing was kinda 90210wee, but once again, Harry did get amnesia in the comics and forgot he was the Green Goblin. I just don't think they portrayed it well. But I was really interested in the fight with him and Peter. Even after he got hit in the head, I thought that was going to be a great fight.

Ok...here we go... I knew they could never do Venom right. There was no way to do the Secret Wars. When I heard he was going to be in the movie I started wondering how they were going to do it. I actually had, I thought, a good idea to have the spider that bit Peter in the first film, when it transferred the DNA of the spider to Peter, they could have had some of Peter's DNA pass to the spider and cause it to mutate into the symbiote. But, they went with the Spiderman Cartoon origin. Well, that wasn't bad, but Grace is no Eddie Brook. Well, the fight scenes weren't that bad, but my problem is at the end. A Goblin grenade, the same one that blew up in Harry's face, incinerated Brook and totally killed the symbiote...what? In my opinion, the dance scene and Venom's demise is what ruined the movie! Yes, Raimi could have done something different, but how many superhero movies have the villain survive? Batman: they killed Joker, Batman Returns: Penguin, Batman Forever: Two Face, Batman and Robin: They murdered Bane's origin, then they killed him, Hulk: they killed Abomination, Punisher Warzone: they killed Jigsaw (in more ways then 1), Batman Begins: Raj Ah Gual (who is suppose to be immortal), The Dark Knight: Two Face, Fanatastic Four 2: How the hell do they kill Galactis?

Bottom line, the movie had a horrible ending and they ruined it as far as I'm concerned. Now they are making a Venom spin off and rumor has it, it will be the same universe...so how the hell are they gonna do that?

So, in the end, s far as the 1st two film are concerned, Dunst was a mistake in casting, MJ should never have been introduced, but the films were good. Maguire portrays Spidey/Peter very well and Raimi is a great director. If the fact that collectively the films have made $2,498,600,000.00 doesn’t tell you that, then maybe you shouldn't watch them.

Jimdlux - 11/11/2009, 8:03 AM
BrazilianBatman? Yup, asshole!
Angelo - 11/11/2009, 8:17 AM
BrazilianBatman@ Lube up were coming :P

Jimdlux@ Some very good points :)
teabag - 11/11/2009, 8:41 AM
The people have spoken Brazilian-waxedBatman

So prepare your face for the floodgates... as teabag said, we're coming.


BillyBlack - 11/11/2009, 9:14 AM
LOL .... There is one other asshole too let us not forget DegenX.... These 2 will be taking the place of Supermike .... ;-)
thegreek - 11/11/2009, 9:46 AM
hey guys i dont want to be another asshole but many of you guys say that you would want to see the sinister six on film but say that third movie wasnt as great bringing three villians into play and saythat dock ock comes which he isnt,that would a disaster 5 villans?the third one was already ruined so
Weiner123 - 11/11/2009, 9:53 AM
hey yeah there's still a chance to see the Sandman on the 4th instalment and the daughter thing was so corny
Weiner123 - 11/11/2009, 9:58 AM
Sandman oh boy the villian with powers like his never kills the cilvilians i would never do that NOOOOOO!!!if i were them i would never do that its just hard to believe that just touched me WHY WOULD THIS HAPPEN and i went to see this movie
Weiner123 - 11/11/2009, 10:04 AM
wow just wasted my time reading that horse shit ! ! ! if ya wanna be a comic book nazi and strive for shit that aint gonna work in film then your gonna have a crap movie like if the true to the comic film was made it would be 8 hours long and have like 50 parts you douch
deanlegend - 11/11/2009, 10:45 AM
@Jimdlux Venom would have worked if they followed the animated series properly not some halfway job. By the way Abomination never died, Ras Al Ghul is debatable because it could be that The Demon's head is a title or that he made it out, unlike Two Face who's body we got to see. Ras Al Ghul is Tupac. Galactus was defeated as well not killed, i think its easier to "kill" the villain as it would just seem like an X-Men(movie)rip off if they do a jailbreak. I hope Nolan brings Ras back or gives us Bane
breakUbatman - 11/11/2009, 11:38 AM
the scene is where peter first shows Jameson his photos of spiderman JJ and Robie are talking about changing the front page of the newspaper

GhostKILLERgx7 - 11/11/2009, 12:50 PM
Most of the people on this site seem to not understand that (a) what works in the comics often will not work on film, and (b) the comics are the vision of just a few people (writer, artist and editor), but the film is the combined vision of a lot of people (Producer, director, writers, actors, editors and many others). Movies cost a LOT of money to make, so if the people controlling the money feel that changes need to be made, then the changes are made. So, the fact that a movie doesn't exactly follow the comic is no surprise. Just ask any book author whether his book was followed when it was made into a movie.

While the comics are the "inspiration" for the film, they appeal to a much wider audience who have little to no pre-knowledge about the character and backstory. And some things can work in a comic but won't work in film. I can give many, many examples of comic book classics that would look stupid on film: Wolverine's yellow spandex costume; Galactus as a giant purple guy floating through space; the giant space squid in Watchmen. The Sinister Six is one of them -- I think trying to put them together in a movie would just be stupid . . . kind of like Robin (with his red, green and yellow outfit) in a Batman movie. (Of course, when Robin was put into a Batman movie, it was very, very stupid. It was one of several things that ruined the franchise. Some "campy" things just don't work on film.)

I feel that Spidey 1 was a pretty good movie. I wasn't thrilled with the casting or changes to Parker or MJ, but overall, a pretty good flick. It got the essence of the character -- a nerd who gets super powers and discovers that he has a responsibility to use them. The biological webbing vs the mechanical webbing I thought was a GOOD change. The mechanical web shooters and chemistry would have taken away from the focus of the movie, and the problems Peter had with the biological webs was a good opportunity for humor. Sure, the comics talk a lot about Spidey mixing up special web fluid for special uses, but that just is not needed in a movie.

Spidey 2 was a better movie -- not perfect, but better. While Doc Ock was a much more sympathetic character in the film, it worked. Molina did a great job. There were weaknesses in the plot, but overall, it was a better film, and just about the best CBM up to that time.

Spidey 3 was disappointing, but not as bad as many people say. Compared to, for instance, Catwoman or Electra, and it was far better. I HATED the change to Uncle Ben's death -- it ruined the Sandman character completely. But other than that, I thought the casting and special effects were quite good. Venom looked pretty nice, but the plot was terrible, casting was wrong and it was too crowded. Either Sandman or Venom could have made a good film, but the two together was too crowded. Dancing Peter was painful. Harry's amnesia plot device was even more painful and cliche'. Still, it had good action and was somewhat entertaining.

I'm looking forward to Spider-man 4. I think that Sam has learned from the mistakes of #3, and will do a better movie. I'll see it unless the reviews are terrible.
Local Man - 11/11/2009, 1:19 PM
the scene is where peter first shows Jameson his photos of spiderman JJ and Robie are talking about changing the front page of the newspaper

GhostKILLERgx7 - 11/11/2009, 1:20 PM
O.K. maybe its just me but I thought the first Spider-man was one of the BEST CBM ever made. I do agree about MJ would like another Spiderman Toby'S SPIDEY WAS FINE ,BUT him as Peter Parker not good. I thought Spidey 2 WAS O.K. BUT NUMBER 3 makes me think I really dont care if they make a 4th one I'll wait for IT on DVD.
BLADE4040 - 11/11/2009, 6:52 PM
@ jim

MJ didn't live next to pete. he never met her until she showed up at his door to go on a blind date that aunt may set him up on. MJ was aunt may's friend's daughter.

very good points though. especially the fact that it doesn't matter HOW smart you are, if you don't have time to study and go to class...you will fail. he's smart, not all-knowing.

also, ra'z al ghoul has "died" in the comics more than once, then later returns. so they weren't far off with that. remember, the first time he died they hadn't introduced the lazarus pit yet. and yeah, abomination didn't die in hulk. you're arguments, for the most part, are very strong though!
CorndogBurglar - 11/12/2009, 5:41 AM
GREAT POINTS, Multi ;)

Of course i agree with all of them yet what the Spiderman films were, was a non stop adrenalyn thrill ride which i enjoyed as much as Stallone's Judge Dredd. None of those were accurate but they sure as hell entertained me. BUT, yes it IS "settling" in some way. The thing is that with Hollywood, they don't give you much of a choice. Either you pay through the nose to get what they WANT to give (never what you truly want) or you don't pay and they move on to another pet project. CBMs will be as popular as they want them to be until they're tired of making them. If we all boycott them and they stop making money, they'll start making some elsewhere. So i'm all for "liking" the spidey franchise and other reasonable "libertied" characters if the film in itself is a good one. But i won't stoop as low as saying that I'll be standing in line to get a Elektra or Catwoman sequel. There is a freakin' limit!!!

BrazilianBatman is an asshole??? Mmmmmmmm... i love me some BrazilianLadieBoys, come ta daddy!!!
Shaman - 11/12/2009, 12:42 PM
Shaman - You are the man .... ;-)
thegreek - 11/12/2009, 1:05 PM
@Shaman: See you in Rio ;)
MultiPurposePoni - 11/12/2009, 7:17 PM
Sounds good, let's make it happen!
Betty - 11/12/2009, 8:25 PM
Let's strike while the hole is tight! ;P
Shaman - 11/13/2009, 7:38 AM
I completely agree with you MP. i love Spider-Man. the films were not as good as most say they are and the filmaker take themselves way too seriously when it comes to making them. i've read nearly every Amazing Spider-Man comic out there. i kind of tuned out after the civil war story, but back to the point; the first film was the best of the 3. i used to think the second one was but no. Norman Osborne/Green Goblin was the best casting in the entire franshise. Willem Dafoe brought my favorite villain to life in ways i never thought would be possible. however, the films went down hill from there for all the reasons you explained. the biggest dissapointment for me was the first dissapointment in the first movie. NO GWEN STACY?!?! wtf?! she was a better and more in-depth love interest than MJ ever was IMO. yeah, peter and mj got married but so what? they even said he dated MJ on the reboud as a way to cope with Gwen's death. they got married but after that it was just all soap opera-like drama between the two. Gwen on the other hand got involved with the adventures and her dad was also an important person in Peter's life. overall her stories were so much more interesting. now to the goblin; even though dafoe owned the role, they watered the character down way too much!! even mor than doc ock IMO. he was the most evil, sinister villain in Spidey's rouge's gallery. i hope sometime down the road this franshise gets a Batman-like reboot. it really needs it. anyways, great article man.
RyzRorschach99 - 11/13/2009, 6:36 PM
@Ryz: Very good points! Good man :)
MultiPurposePoni - 11/16/2009, 8:14 PM
I want Spider-man 4. The first three movies are awesome. I understand about 3. I still wish we see more Venom and Black Spider-Man instead of dark Peter.
Torian Brown - 11/21/2009, 8:22 PM
i agree with Torian, it could have been better, can't wait for the fourth one
brazilianbatman - 11/22/2009, 8:22 PM

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