CAPTAIN AMERICA: TWS - Speculations And Observations.

All due acknowledgements and appreciations are taken, therefore, "as read". PLEASE leave your X-Men: DOFP, Batman vs. Superman, and other franchise arguments at the door. WIPE YOUR DAMNED FEET, smooth back that stupid producted-up hair, and enter at your own frigging risk.

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By bropous - 10/24/2013


[CODICIL: This is my very FIRST article after all these years. I've been around since this much-gloried site and Realm of Galactus since 1988, when most of the comic book movies you know and love were only "a glint in the milkman's eye". A veteran of the flame wars of just about ALL comic book movies since then, I say this: If I have stepped over any line, or violated any posting rule, I accept any and all tongue-lashings and reprobation as well-deserved.]

Okay.

Time for a little speculation and observation here.



1. THREE Helicarriers, GREATLY up-gunned, are being manufactured in the trailer, and we see them as the helicarrier is being lifted from "drydock" [sic]. Number "42", number "65" (the follow-on of the Avengers film Helicarrier 64) and number "88". 88 seems MUCH larger than 42 (look at the expanded "belly" of 88). 65 seems larger as well judging from the parallax of the shot. There seems to be at least three classes of Helicarrier, each of differing "displacement"/maximum takeoff weight, as well as armament.

2. The Winter Soldier catches Cap's shield. Cap's shield is supposed to be created from Vibranium, which absorbs/deflects all energies (allowing him to use it as a "brake" for water entry [guys - the shield deflects the impact of the shield to the water, allowing his super-strengthened humerus to hold the shield extended as his body hits a water surface]). So, Winter Soldier's arm is made of Vibranium, as well. Does this open the door for a film about the only earthbound source of Vibranium ore - Waukanda???

3. Red Skull masquerading as the head of SHIELD portrayed by Robert Redford has some precedent, and that is Trevor Slattery playing a role as The Mandarin. Maskirovka, the Russian term for masquerade. Appearances are not always correct. Red Skull has already been shown as a master of disguise. And we do know that Arnim Zola, in WHATEVER form he appears, is involved, somehow. It is possible that Red Skull returned to Earth sometime in the 1945-1991 timeframe (he would have had to have embedded himself in some way prior to the fall of the Soviet Union to have credibility in the SHIELD hierarchy), and reconnected with the "remnant" (?) of Arnim Zola and both have worked, undercover, to use SHIELD for their OWN purposes.

4. Fury is SHIELD to the bone. He moves against the SHIELD hierarchy, and is targeted by The Winter Soldier. Crossbones is working with The Winter Soldier, and we can assume that Batroc the Leaper (the guy who pulls the sword on Cao in the elevator?) is working with "the Dark Side" of SHIELD as well. There may be a bit of a "civil war" afoot in the SHIELD command structure. Fury may very well be fighting to take control of SHIELD back from the forces that are trying to use it for their own purposes.

5. "Agents of SHIELD" has GOT to start referencing these events, to remain relevant in the MCU. In fact, Agents of SHIELD might very well be the main tool used by Marvel to start the foreshadowing of a fracture within SHIELD, and the team on "the short bus" might start picking up the first murmurings of such conflict within the organization. Skye has ALREADY hinted that she is working with other organizations that have penetrated SHIELD. Could Marvel Studios be setting the stage for Cap 2, already, in the Agents of SHIELD storyline?



6. Decisions by The Council during "The Avengers" as an extension of Hydra's strategies. The Council orders the destruction of New York as a response to the invasion by the Chithauri, commanded by Loki. Is the Council working on the advice of the Robert Redford character (Red Skull?) to take advantage of the opportunity of the alien invasion to complete the original mission of Hydra to destroy New York?

7. "Phase Two". Cap finds that SHIELD is creating "Hydra weapons" based upon the Tesseract, and that this tech is on the Helicarrier. Hydra penetration of SHIELD to complete their previous plans? Is this what Marvel is hinting at, setting up Cap 2?

8. Thanos tie-in. We know that The Purple Grinning Titan Bastard is not some single-line actor. Thanos is devious, and never leaves all his eggs in one basket. He wanted The Tesseract. Loki was ONE avenue to that goal. Is it not possible that The Red Skull, who was ported to somewhere else by The Tesseract, ended up before The Purple Death-Dater and worked a deal for a return to Earth? Perhaps to work behind the scenes to undermine the most credible defense that Earth had (SHIELD) to help forward the Chithauri Invasion?

9. Cap dons the original uniform. Cap supposedly steals the original uniform from the Smithsonian. Some think it is to remind the public who he is, and that he is fighting for America, not for one faction or another, PURE Cap. But is it not possible that he dons the uniform to be a psychic kick to the nuts to his best buddy, Bucky, who has been brainwashed and manipulated? Cap seems to not fully see WHO the Winter Soldier is for a while in the film, a face blurred by smoke, or under a mask, but you can bet that he begins to SUSPECT that this new Super Soldier is Bucky. Him stealing the uniform from the Smithsonian might very well be about him trying to get the "real Bucky" to emerge from the brainwashed "Winter Soldier".

10. Agents of SHIELD, again. You can bet that if there is foreshadowing of a SHIELD penetration by Hydra leading up to Cap 2, that there WILL be aftershocks throughout Agents of SHIELD. Even if things are patched up with Skye by that point, a reveal that Red Skull became the leader of SHIELD might very well open old wounds in the team and make several think that Skye might very well be working under DEEP cover. This distrust plays quite well into the idea that Skye might end up as Jessica Drew, who was always viewed with a bit of a skeptical eye by teammates in the Avengers and other groups.



Okay. All of this is pure speculation. However, to me, Marvel does NOTHING in this cinematic universe as a "stand-alone". We are seeing a LOT of foreshadowing in this trailer, and are given a LOT to think about.

Source: bropous
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39 Comments
NovaCorpsFan - 10/24/2013, 12:36 PM
Saw the comment, lol. I like alot of these. They're all pretty intriguing and feasible. I'm starting to think I know what's gonna go down, though. Cap's distrust of S.H.I.E.L.D. drives him away from them. This creates tension between Cap and S.H.I.E.L.D. After this, Cap stsrts to question all his affiliations. He begins to distrust the Avengers. Something happens that drives him away. The Avengers split. Hawkeye, Hulk, Thor, Ant-Man stick with Tony. While Black Widow, Thor and Falcon go off. The two factions of Avengers decide the best way to deal with the situation is to decommission the other. They start recruiting and boom, Civil War.
ForMeToPoopOn - 10/24/2013, 12:37 PM
Excellent write-up, Bro.

I would hope that there are some ripples between the film and AoS.

A hint at Thanos would be fine, but I'd rather not go too deep down that rabbit hole. Would be too much.

As far as Robert Redford being Red Skull, I really hope that it isn't. I'd much rather he be Baron Zemo or some other Hydra or Russian threat working with Winter Soldier.

Excited to see how they handle Zola too.
Batmaniac - 10/24/2013, 12:38 PM
"Your work has been a gift to mankind. You have shaped the century, and I need you to do it one more time."

I'm pretty sure he was saying that to The Winter Soldier. While I think Alexander Pierce may be Red Skull in disguise, and also think it could be Baron Zemo. Either way, I think its one of those two.
TheArchivist - 10/24/2013, 12:57 PM
Love the theories here. Hope that this trailer also has a deeper meaning for Agents of SHIELD that has gotten darker with each episode, maybe all these theories are leading towards something bigger in the MCU.

Really hoping Robert Redford turns out to be Red Skull, not only would it be a great reveal but also the most plausible change of actor in the franchise.
ctsketch - 10/24/2013, 1:01 PM
That wasn't Batroc in the Elevator
ruadh - 10/24/2013, 1:05 PM
@ManOfReal

The spitting on computer thing is a really tedious running joke.
ruadh - 10/24/2013, 1:44 PM
I don't see how that is supposed to make it any better.
ROBBEATZZZ - 10/24/2013, 1:58 PM
Good stuff!!
ForMeToPoopOn - 10/24/2013, 2:32 PM
Excellent catch, Batmaniac!

The "You have shaped the century..." is absolutely directed to Winter Soldier. This would have been when he was taken out of stasis to destroy Cap. Makes a whole lot of sense.

And, as far as Winter Soldier shaping the century -- he absolutely did. During the century, he did assassin work for the Soviets, between long stasis naps.
MrCBM56 - 10/24/2013, 3:48 PM
cool article.
jojofmd - 10/24/2013, 4:05 PM
Good article. Interesting thoughts. Doubt Redford is Zemo, there is not precedence nor hints at that. However, him being skull is probable. Not sure how AoS is going to reference these events. The question is when does AoS take place? Pre or post IM3? Have they addressed or will they address why Hawkeye isn't or won't be in this?
ForMeToPoopOn - 10/24/2013, 4:12 PM
This should really be on main. Much more insightful than the fighting style editorial.
ForMeToPoopOn - 10/24/2013, 4:14 PM
And... it is on main. Congrats!
StatenMan18 - 10/24/2013, 4:33 PM
Awesome read good stuff ;)
l0rdleg0las - 10/24/2013, 4:52 PM
I think Cap putting the stars and stripes back on has nothing to do with wanting to remind Bucky who he is; I believe it is Steve saying, I don't fight for SHIELD, I fight for America and what is right.
AnakinsTwin - 10/24/2013, 6:43 PM
Great article BRO!!!
sikwon - 10/24/2013, 7:07 PM
Great article. AoS has to tie in and it is getting much much better. It would be awesome if the team was carrying out side or coresponding missiins for Fury leading up to CA2 that helped Fury in the movie. Either way the possibility and premis are awesome and just that we are TALKING about it means Marvel is doing something very right.
sikwon - 10/24/2013, 7:08 PM
That volleyball ass is amazing.
sikwon - 10/24/2013, 7:24 PM
Did any one notice, thats Fury in the hospital bed.
jrp6048 - 10/24/2013, 8:02 PM
I think you might be onto something but there are a few things to consider and this is for everyone to think about. Obviously Redford may not be innocent seeing as Crossbones and Batroc are both in the helicarrier at the beginning when Cap jumps out and then attack in the elevator, they may be working for Winter Soldier or they all might be answering to Redford as his centuries speech probably went to Winter Soldier. There is no reason to say that to Cap as he only had a couple missions and then froze and we have no idea what Winter Soldier has been up to
SnapperCarr - 10/24/2013, 8:03 PM
@bropous DAT ASS!
GinjaNinja - 10/24/2013, 8:35 PM
Am I the only one that doesn't like black widows look as much? She's hot but... not as hot.. :(
CharacterAssassin - 10/24/2013, 8:42 PM
FYI: I had no control over my feet being DAMNED...
ItsAllOurBlood - 10/24/2013, 8:52 PM
Here's a couple things I've thought of, out of observation (of the trailer and production news we've gotten), familiarity with the storyline, and geek hope:

I think the Batroc theories are way off. I believe Georges St-Pierre will play a small, expanded cameo role in the film. Batroc will be a light villain early in the film, just to show Cap in action. GSP stated in an interview that "They asked me to let my hair grow to play a villain. I also let my [facial] hair grow..." The man in the elevator has no facial hair, is not GSP, and not Batroc.

Crossbones is a SHIELD agent, and like many have pointed out, clearly a bad guy considering we know his evolution. Based on the Winter Soldier and Civil War storylines, this does lend a legitimacy to Redford's Pierce being Red Skull, in place of Aleksander Lukin. Pierce and his fellow infiltrators are part of a grand effort to bring a militarized SHIELD under the control of Red Skull. Toby Jones' reprisal of Arnim Zola increases this suspicion, and it's not unlikely that you will see Zola as the man who designed the Winter Soldier's arm, in similar fashion to the robotic body he will obviously have.

I think the most interesting thing is the fallout this may have. I watch and love Homeland, the third season of which shows a vulnerable CIA, weakened by attack and distrusted by the America. SHIELD is infiltrated by an enemy and goes to war on the streets and in the skies of Washington D.C., with massive property damage (a Helicarrier exploding and crashing in the Potomac. This has me curious about SHIELD's future in the MCU. How could SHIELD continue to have political support and trust after such a public failure. This could bring a large sea change to the MCU if Marvel plays this well, politically.
Dunejedi - 10/24/2013, 9:20 PM
Nice write-up, duder. I hope AoS ties into the MCU better than it has so far, but I fear it won't.
Rokyn - 10/24/2013, 9:34 PM
Great work with the article. I'm starting to believe that Pierce's line about "You're the greatest thing to mankind in this century" is actually directed to Bucky. Bucky probably played a part in shaping the 20th century up to 911. That alone makes him the most dangerous man to walk the Earth during that time. He probably killed Kennedy, too. But we will see what happens. I hope we don't get Zola on a TV screen, the idea is ridiculous. I rather he be part of a flashback in where he helped mess up Bucky (which if you watch the first film, he was already getting messed up on in that Nazi camp by Zola). I rewatched the movie and found that really interesting.
Rokyn - 10/24/2013, 9:56 PM
Do you think Red Skull cameoed in Thor TDW during the Loki prison scene in the trailer? Someone mentioned that but I still don't know. ALSO, remember Graviton right? Episode 3 I think? Well guess who freed him? That same SHIELD agent that Coulson said to lock Graviton up and never say a word about him to anyone without level access. Even Fury doesn't know everything about SHIELD. SHIELD is looking more and more like our modern US government in where FEAR has led them to insure more PROTECTION in the expense of our FREEDOM. And guess what? AOS episode 4 dealt with that issue. And Cap said it in the trailer AND in Avengers. No wonder ULTRON is going to be the next one. He will be a SHIELD and/maybe Stark creation! And Extremis? That's going to lead to the evolution of other superpowered beings like Quick Silver and Scarlet Witch! Probably manipulated by an outside force!
Rokyn - 10/24/2013, 9:59 PM
Rokyn. Has. Been. Mindblown. Damn it the MCU is so great dammit! I gotta write an article one of these days detailing the entire plot of phase 1 and 2 and with my phase 3 predictions. This shit is incredible!
FizzBall - 10/25/2013, 6:08 AM
My Redskull theory - if someone has not said it - an easter egg in the Guardians prison break would be satifactory. but the whole idea of Redskull in space. Mindblown.
CharlesLord - 10/25/2013, 6:59 AM
I like most of the theories but that wasnt Batroc in the elevator and he didnt pull a sword, it was a stun rod. Batroc is being played by Georges St Pierre, hes pretty recognizable and the only person I recognized in that elevator was Frank Grillos Crossbones
brokenexcitement - 10/25/2013, 7:16 AM
Anyone else notice this?

NovaCorpsFan - 10/25/2013, 7:35 AM
Hey, in the trailer, Alecander Pierce is stood in front of a window, his reflection is really clear cast in it. That reminded me of when Lukin is talking to his reflection in the window, then we find out it's Red Skull.
NovaCorpsFan - 10/25/2013, 7:36 AM
Alexander*
CharlesLord - 10/25/2013, 9:36 AM
@brokenexcitement thats fury. other have said that its Falcon but that goatee is too thick for Anthony Mackies. Thats Sam Jackson fake goatee add on
PeterDarker121 - 10/25/2013, 12:53 PM
@bropous

Excellent article (I hyped it in the Cap2 thread), but I'm the 'somebody' who brought up the issue of concurrent timelines on that thread and I mentioned that Iron Man 3 takes place specifically during the week of Christmas 2013.

As I mentioned in that comment, this is clearly stated on the front page of the newspaper Harley hands Tony in the woodshed stating the fact that Tony is missing/dead.

As I mentioned and as anyone who saw the end of IM3 knows, Tony can stabilize Extremis as he tells Pepper.

Considering the current storyline in AOS deals with a group (my guess is Hydra) attempting to find a way to do just THAT, AOS obviously is taking place BEFORE the events of Iron Man 3.

Therefore, it wouldn't be surprising that Ben Kingsley's recent scenes he shot were for an upcoming AOS episode which take place before then and around the time 'The Mandarin' would begin to make his presence known via the airwaves. JARVIS tells Tony in IM3 (during his virtual CSI of the Extremis blast that injured Happy) that SHIELD has been investigating these occurrences. They just haven't figured it out yet.

As I stated, I look for AOS (so far) to be running parallel to the events of IM3 until mid-season (Christmas/New Years). After that, I expect this 'Centipede' to be revealed as an off-shoot of Hydra and the issues of Skye's parents and their involvement with them to be made clearer.
PeterDarker121 - 10/25/2013, 12:57 PM
I should add that a centipede's legs grow back after being cut off. Sound familiar?
kinghulk - 10/25/2013, 1:07 PM
after watching that scene in the trailer with falcon i hope to god he appears in age of ultron.
i think panther could appear in age of ultron or be referenced cos i heard they where filming in cape town which they could turn into wakanda.

cant wait to see where this goes im imagineing a shield civil war or shield going rogue to take over the world. maybe in the aftermath shield is dispanded and we get a after credit scene where it shows a damaged robot body whose eyes then glows.
RedNTheHood - 10/26/2013, 1:32 PM
This trailer got me so excited. The espionage feel in it was what I wanted from AoS. AoS is good, but the tone seems wrong to me. Hopefully by the time CATWS comes out the tones will match. This is the Cap movie I wanna see. This article got me even more hyped and I hope all of your speculations are right
DurtyTalynt - 10/26/2013, 4:53 PM
Good article. It gives me a reason to watch AOS in a positive way now.

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