PIPA and SOPA - Good but flawed idea - Over Reaction by 'internet' users.

PIPA and SOPA - Good but flawed idea - Over Reaction by 'internet' users.

I do not feel bad for Pirates, Thieves, and Cheats.

Editorial Opinion
By KingLobo - Jan 18, 2012 08:01 AM EST
Filed Under: Other

OK OK OK...first let me say that I am against censorship of the internet. I am against over-reaching political/legal action that could jepordize the free exchange of information across the internet.

That being said....

SOPA and PIPA are ideally means to protect intellectual property, real property, virtual property etc...
Look we copyright things because we own it and want to reap the benefits of that ownership. This can occur through sharing, selling, marketing, and anything else we can think of that may constitute use. (not necessarily financial gain)

These bills are meant to protect content owners, as well as content subscribers from malicious acts of infringement.

I've read several articles and watched numerous videos on "What is PIPA and SOPA?" - What I find a common theme to be is that people are generally OK with Piracy. Ok with stealing someone elses content and posting as their own. Ok with sites that create knockoffs and sell them as the original. Ok with using content that is owned by someone else in such a way to gain financially. or to stop the owner from financial gain.

Music and movies are two big examples of this. I admit it is not popular to be against music file sharing overseas, or torrent streaming of movies that were acquired by something other than legal means. I personally like to find TV, Movies and Music to watch/listen for free. HOWEVER, I admit that it's wrong and that someones rights may be infringed upon.

What if you created some "masterpiece" and created a website and posted it for all to see and purchase if they choose to and anyother merchandise that you created and copyrighted. Then hours (maybe minutes) after your've posted your one of a kind Masterpiece, you find knockoff sites, selling, recreating, merchandising, and corrupting your orignal content? This is what the intent of these bills are meant to combat.

YouTube is a site that allows users to post damn near anything and has a safe harbor clause that limits their liability. However, YouTube agrees and admits that protected content shoud be scrubbed and they do a pretty good job of that. Years ago Mark Cuban was thinking about buying YouTube but raised the question that is being raised today...who's content is it? What will be the legal issues be when "owners" complain? So he passed thinking it would ultimately be too risky.

The other huge concern that pops up in the comments and videos is that "this may destroy the internet", Or some variation. The example given is that a picture is posted on Facebook and in the background there is some copyrighted material (logo). The Company could file a take down notice and have Facebook shut down....This is NOT going to happen.

Copyright law doesn't extend to those types of things, it also doesn't extend to Fan art, Fan fiction, or crafts, or reproductions that could be considered art, craftmanship etc...EVEN if you sold some of these things. The measure of infrigment is a high standard. SUPERMAN FAN art for example that someone sells even though the "S" is trademarked and or copyrited...doesn't fall under PIPA OR SOPA or anyother laws related. Why? Because there is no Malicious intent, or constructive competition, or profit motive that would limit the branding of DC.

Bottom Line is this....if the public feels that this legislation is too over reaching explain it better, write it better, and ensure that the right people are the only ones to be impacted.

Also if an artist wants to give their stuff away for free, don't copyright it, or sign waivers to allow it's use.

Lastly, in my opinion, there has been some DRASTIC overreation and some silly "what if's" ...or this could happen, senarios thrown out there. YES...some crazy stuff could happen, but we have to look at intent and not worst case EXTREME 99.9999% unlikely senarios.

Are the bills flawed? Sure. Are they written in a way that is less than user friendly? Yes. Should we be ok with STEALING? No. Should content owners who want protection be protected? Yes.

The trick is doing it so that it doesn't seem like the sky is falling.

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KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 9:21 AM
let me say this as well...saying the PIPA or SOPA is the end of the internet is like saying: Makeing laws that increase fuel milage and less emissions will kill the auto industry. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
DylansMyDog
DylansMyDog - 1/18/2012, 10:45 AM
I agree with Thorverine not many people will argue you should be allowed to steal other peoples work. However, these bills are massive overreaches that could cause entire sites to be shut down if a user posts something that is copyrighted.

Since this site posts user generated content and yes sometimes that stuff is copyrighted you could lose this site all together. Not saying that will happen or is even likely, but its possible if these bills are passed.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 10:47 AM
I think you are wrong. I think most people see a way of getting information as being interupted. File sharing for example. Universal had a Hong Kong site shut down for free music file sharing. The "Artists" came together created a video (sponsored by the shut down site) and posted to YouTube. Universal tried to bring down the content...YouTube found that that Unversal did not own the Copyright but the artists did (for the video and content)...point is that if someone feels that it's OK to get the information just because it's on the internet...then It must not be wrong for anyone to post anything anywhere. This is the arguments that I have heard. Piracy is a way of life on the internet...etc. What I'm not seeing ARE the arguments that you are talking about...what makes the bills a totally bad thing? HOW do the bills affect the regular people that surf the net and use a site like CBM? Outside of the the doomsday senarios...it doesn't
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 10:49 AM
I wonder...imagine you pay for a cooking class where they teach you a particular garlic chicken recipe. Then, when you go home, you then teach that recipe to your friends. Should you go to jail for 5 years for "stealing" the recipe and giving it to others?

When you copy an mp3 or a video file that you paid for and send it to a friend, is the same thing.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 10:55 AM
Also "Overreaches?" How so? What I think most people don't recognize is that these bills also have to work with other Copyright law...Sites that thrive on hijacked material may have to make adjustment. Sites that traffic bootlegged or clearly copyrighted material, or counterfeit material...again should be shut down.....I get the whole lets not control the internet...but the internet is not a free for all wasteland where anything goes...maybe it's too late and "controls" should have been thought about earlier on...I just think that it's a cop-out to say that it's government overreach while trying to protect producers and consumers from wannton and malicious piracy. Users dont get that...they just hear..."the internet will be killed" and hide behind that.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 10:59 AM
Can ou copyright a ckicken recipe? You can copyright a book that has the recipe and if someone copies that book and make their own useing your recipes, you can sue.

Also I don't think the 1 or 2 or 10 share copies for NON profit amongst friends is the intent...but the original Napster...Lime Wire...sites that provide a means to share by the millions without any royalties or payments to the artists, studios, lables or producers yeah...shut them down
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 11:04 AM
nhalden,

People have been sued for thousands of dollars for the "crime" of sending mp3s to their friends. Not millions of people, just their friends. It's ridiculous.

Anyway, I am pretty sure that freedom will win. SOPA will NOT become law.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 11:05 AM
To Thorverine....PIPA basically says and I simplify...if you create and or own something...and I take it and post/profit/market/deceive/limit your traffic/profit etc....then I can be sure down.

This does not mean posting a picture on FB or CBM and writing comments about it. It is constructive, intentful malicious intent.

Also this is illegal in anyother part of out daily lives and no one bitches about there...but because it's the internet, there is one....basically the underlining defence is if you don't want it stolen, used, plagerized, etc...don't put it on line of all to see/use
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 11:10 AM
Examples....10000 CD/Songs...etc...do these suits have grounds yeah are they popoular no.

Name ANY suit where a handfull of traded music was sued over? ...you won't be able to.

"Freedom" will win...freedom to do what? STEAL, is what you are saying.
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 11:17 AM
I guess you are stealing The Thick's image since you are using it as your avatar's without permission. Oh, that's right, it's only one person using it for a little avatar picture.

But you see, laws like SOPA would allow for even little things like that to be a big deal. I guess you just don't get it.

We should agree to disagree. We live in different worlds.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 11:18 AM
Last one for me as I posted this and what the comments to flow unabaited....

I don't want the internet to die...or content to be censored. I understand that I am taking a less than popular stance on this.

As a owner/creator of content I would like to know that I have some protections and avenues of resolition should I need them. Whether that is PIPA or SOPA or something else down the road. - IT IS A GOOD IDEA and that's all I'm really saying. I'm not trying to defend the bills themselves just the idea and the fact that even if these pass that it will not be the end of the internet.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 11:24 AM
Oh have to respond....The TICK first of all..second...I'm not using is maliciously or trying to profit off of it...or keep the creators from profiting off of it. AS with many things once it's out there unless protected initially it's public domain.
That is where the argument turns "stupid" in my opinion...If the creators of the TICK cared they could ask that I remove the icom..(me or CBM) and I would have to. BUT they aren't going to. Becuase I'm not acting the fool with their content.

That's where the real agrument is...how do you try to reel in something that is so large and has been unregulated for so long? AS well as where there is an explicit expectation of common ownership once it's posted on line?
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 11:26 AM
"Name ANY suit where a handfull of traded music was sued over? ...you won't be able to." - nhalden


"In a crucial legal victory for record labels and other copyright owners, a federal jury yesterday found a Minnesota woman liable for copyright infringement for sharing music online and imposed a penalty of $222,000 in damages.

The verdict against Jammie Thomas of Brainerd, Minn., brought an end to the first jury trial in the music industry’s protracted effort to rein in piracy with lawsuits against individual computer users. Since 2003, record labels have brought legal action against about 30,000 people, accusing them of trafficking in copyrighted songs.

The jury verdict, which called for $9,250 in damages for each of the 24 songs involved in the trial, came after brief deliberations."

Source: New York Times - October 5, 2007

24 songs. $9,250 per song. I don't know how that can be considered justifiable.



KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 11:26 AM
Lets say I wanted to use the TICK in an advertisment...THen they would come after me...and if I was on line doing it...then these bills would help them do that.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 11:33 AM
What you are not posting is that she then turn around and posted those songs on a file sharing site for anyone to take...not just her "friends"....yeah its sucks and it was done to prove a point...but my point was...If you or I buy a CD and burn it...and allow friends to upload from our personal computer...not a problem...(still illegal) but doesn't fall under these laws or processes to resolve.
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 11:34 AM
I don't think that miss Jammie Thomas was doing anything with malicious intent, or trying to profit or keeping the creators from profiting.

I am pretty sure that image of the Tick IS copyrighted. And I agree, it would be stupid if they go after you for using it, but here's the thing: with SOPA, they could, and this website would be in trouble because of you. This website could be shutdown just because some suit at New England Comics or Fox (or whoever currently owns the Tick copyright) was in a bad mood and decided to do just that. SOPA gives them that power.

And the thing with SOPA is that they don't hold you responsible, they hold the CMB website responsible also.

Now, how much copyrighted material is shown on this website without any written form of consent? Lots, from images of comic book pages, to video clips of movies.

And that's why SOPA is so bad.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 11:56 AM
After Rereading SOPA thinking I missed something that you've pointed out...I believe you are wrong in your assement of what could/would happen.

I'm going to create another post to clarify
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 12:06 PM
Oh boy, I guess we must agree to disagree.

Anyway, SOPA is not going to become law. A bunch of congressmen are now revoking their support for it. I guess after receiving thousands of emails and phone calls from the people of this great country.
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 12:21 PM
On top of everything else, now even the people that are the "victims" of online piracy are against SOPA and PIPA.

Check this out:

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2012/01/open-letter-to-washington-from-artists.html
Priest
Priest - 1/18/2012, 12:23 PM
It's not the artists that support SOPA, it's the media corporations. Corporations are amoral entities, they only care about profit.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/18/2012, 2:28 PM
again...if the Artists want to make their "art" or anything else FREE FOR ALL...then do so. Companies, producers, studios, etc...want and need to get paid as well as secure future royalties and or use of their investment or product.

This is not out of line, this is the way life works. Some stuff in live is "Free" ...some things aren't.

For or against the bills - the intent is/was to protect copyrights from commerical infringement. I personally don't see anything wrong with that. The way in which they do it on the other hand can be revisited and debated.
sonofsamadams
sonofsamadams - 1/18/2012, 8:45 PM
This comment has been taken down due to copyright infringement.
bgharcourt
bgharcourt - 1/18/2012, 9:43 PM
I'd like to point out that the Steve Austin pic you use as an avatar is an image that is owned by the WWE , and unauthorized use is prohibited.
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/19/2012, 9:31 AM
@bgharcourt - I'd like to point out that I am not using it for personal gain or profit and therefore not in violation of any laws current or pending.

Which is why neither I nor CBM have anything to fear
KingLobo
KingLobo - 1/19/2012, 9:57 AM
Oh...BTW...same could be said about your goffer from Caddyshack....Can you hear the footsteps? They are coming to get you.
TheQuestion
TheQuestion - 1/21/2012, 6:36 AM
Here's the thing, copyright infringement isn't theft; it's copyright infringement. The spin job these companies have done on people is amazing. Stealing is when you take personal property from an entity for private gain. That isn't what happens with file sharing. For years people have recorded tv shows, movies, and music and shared them with their friends. Sites like Pirate Bay and Demonoid are doing a digital version of that form of sharing, and the government wants to use PIPA and SOPA to shut them down to protect profits of billion dollar corporations. But imagine if you burned a CD for a friend and gave it to them, only to be locked up for 5 years for "piracy" and "theft". Wouldn't be fun, would it? Why would we let allow the government to do the same thing to the internet, where the free exchange of data and information make it what it is?

Now if people had to pay for these files on Pirate Bay or other sites, then this would be justified. But that's not the case. These are people who have paid for this copyrighted material and are using it as they see fit, that is protected under the constitution. We can't let these media companies equate theft with sharing. We can't let them use their financial wealth to buy our politicians and write their own legislation. That power belongs to the people, not corporations. We have to protect the internet and keep it the way it was intended to be; a place where everyone can speak and share freely with anonymity, and without fear of persecution.
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