The Reason I Think Nolan Batman Works For A jla Movie

The Reason I  Think Nolan Batman Works For A jla Movie

Before I give my opinion on why I think Nolan batman actually can work in Justice League movie if Wayne bros decide to do a one, I first have to get something off my mind...

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By flames809 - 9/26/2010
While reading the article "Why I Think Christopher Nolan's Batman 3 Will Be Cancelled" by Giff i saw some comments there that said when Nolan is done with the third film then wb can reboot and make it more closer to the comics, other said that Nolan will kill batman to end his movie and others said Nolan doesn't understand superheroes. OK as much as i respect there opinion i got some of my owns. The people that keep saying to reboot the franchise when Nolan is finish with his finale batman film why would you want to reboot a franchise that works. Do you really want to go to the past batman movie that were closer to the comics and didn't work? Or on the other hand, continue a great franchise that Nolan has set up for us. Know on to the people that keep saying Nolan will kill batman to end the franchise, well Nolan respects the character to much to do that to him. In addition, if Nolan never understood superheroes then how can you make great comic book movies without understanding what the character stands for and what he represent?

Know that i have gotten that out the way i can get in to my main topic. A lot of you had said over the years to reboot or change actors to connect into a justice league film, why do that when you already have an actor playing the character that works well in a jla movie. I know a lot of you are going to say is because the movies are too realistic, which i do not see i mean yea is set in the real world but is still Gotham and batman can fall from a 50 feet building without getting hurt and you call that realistic, cause if it was realistic batman would have been dead right there an movie would have been over. If you reboot or pick another actor to play batman just for a justice league batman will still just be a person in a costume that will not be so different from Nolan movies. Because in the comics batman is the same as Nolan movies only different in comics, he fights some villains with powers. Wouldn’t ya like to see batman a man with out powers only uses his hands to fight crime stand his own next to superman, flash, wonder women, aqua-man, man-hunter and green lantern and stand his own with villains that can kill him whenever they want to? The great thing about batman that I think ya forgot is that he’s human and doesn’t have a ring to give him power he just have his brain to use in all his situation and his skills which what makes Nolan batman perfect for a jla movie cause the movie goers can connect to batman more if they were in the same situation.

Oh and one more thing Hawk eye and black widow are not so different from batman. Iam saying this is because when the avengers comes you going to have ironman a man with a super high tech suit, Thor a mighty god, captain America a person older than the rest of the team and has super strength and speed, hulk a man that can turn into a 10 feet angry green monster and then you have the odd ones Hawk eye and black widow the human one that don’t have powers or high tech suit just there skills to help them out. Then ya say Nolan batman cannot work with a team of heroes, but Hawk eye and black widow can work with a team of heroes, seriously, I do not get that. That makes no sense at all.
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ThreeBigTacos - 9/26/2010, 9:40 AM
Good Points. I don't want to come off as a jerk, but this is my opinion. Personally for myself, its pretty hard to picture Nolan's batman fighting a villain like Clayface, Mr.Freeze, or Bane. Mind you, i would love to see that, but to keep the 'reality' base of the movie, I don't think we'll see Christian Bale staring as Batman in a JLA film, or any JLA film altogether. But then again, Scarecrow, Raz Al Ghul, Joker, and Two face transitioned beautifully to the big screen and kept their reality. I agree on the whole likeness to the avengers, and I agree it would be awesome, but in all truth, we wont see that sadly.

on a side note, would Clayface in a live action Batman movie remind movie goers too much of Spiderman 3's Sandman? Just a random thought I had.

Good Post!
joekerr93 - 9/26/2010, 11:42 AM
I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but this is what i think

Why would Batman even be in the Justice League? It makes no sense at all. At least with Black Widow, she is with SHIELD, who is setting up the Avengers, and so has already guaranteed herself a spot. Hawkeye though, should not be on the Avengers. It doesn't make sense. It would be too convenient that all these superpowered villains wouldn't kill Batman for some reason or another (basically just so the franchise can continue)

Nolan has said time and again that his Batman is alone in his world, no one else is there. He is not going to let anyone else [frick] with his Batman. I don't think it would be disrespectful to kill Batman, i think it is the only way to end Nolan's series properly. He also said he wants his third movie to have a definitive ending, so he isn't going to leave it open for someone else to take over.

After Nolan is done, they could just do more Batman movies that aren't related to Nolan, just good movies. Not sequels, or even reboots. Just keep making movies like when they transitioned from Burton to Shumacher. They weren't in the same universe or storyline, but they didn't reboot.

As for him falling off the building and surviving, he used his cape to slow the fall and then landed on his feet, with knees bent, the same way people who parachute land. He actually had an advantage because of his armoured suit.

One last thing. Warner Brothers recently said that they are not going to make a Justice League movie, they are just going to focus on individual movies.
flames809 - 9/26/2010, 2:38 PM
three- yea i also can't picture him fighting those villains. but then if Wayne bros do a justice league movie it would be cool seeing batman teaming up with other heroes he never meet or heard of and fighting villains that can kill him. but clayface wouldn't look the same as sandman cause of color difference and the people know the difference.lol. and thanks glad you liked it.

joeker- what i was trying to say is that 2 people that have no powers or a robot suit can fit with a god, a robot-man, a monster, and a never aging war world 2 hero even if one of them got a spot in the team they are still the odd ones that will have to relie on there skills than the rest of the team, but then Nolan batman can't be in a jla if wb decided to do one which doesn't make sense.

idk why batman decided to join the team i personally think the creators of the jla put him in the team was to probably show the human side to everyone else on the team.

i know Nolan has said millions of time batman is the only hero and it makes sense since is the early years of batman or batman is the first hero and then green lantern is probably the second one and then is superman and then flash and then wonderwomen. you never know wb can be probably making a jla movie in there own secret way. and i know they not doing one im just saying that Nolan batman can work in a jla movie.

why kill batman makes no sense if you kill him in his early years then how is Gotham going to stop all the villains batman cause like the joker cause in the movie if batman was never around Gotham would have never got someone like the joker so there has to be people like the joker round.

after Nolan is done he can godfather the other movies if wb continues it like hes god-fathering superman. why would you want to go the Burton to shumacher route that's what [frick]ed up the movies and wb wouldn't change the universe cause they know batman works well set in a real world. if they do a justice league movie i bet wb would but Nolan to god-father it since he already understands batman an superman so how hard will it be to understand the rest?

OK the cape help him a bit, but he still would of been injured even if the capes help you out a little bit you won't survive that fall cause of the speed you going and the height of the building and if the armored suit saved his life he would still be injured even Rachael if it was realistic. and is not rude is your opinion.
joekerr93 - 9/26/2010, 5:16 PM
what i am saying is that Hawkeye and Black Widow don't fit in the Avengers, and Batman doesn't fit in the Justice League

the only reason they put Batman in the JL was because he was so popular, there was no actual logical reason for him to join. batman is just a martial artist detective, why in hell would he be fighting darkseid or anyone of that caliber? batman is my favourite hero of all time, but it doesn't make sense for him to be in the league

marvel have made their universe so as to challenge your suspension of disbelief a lot more than nolan's batman has, that's why they can have heroes such as iron man, captain america, thor, and the hulk work together in the first place. the whole idea of a team up amongst superheroes is stupid to begin with. they would either never do it because of their egos, or always work together against each villain because it is so much easier.

as for what you say about killing batman. there is a popular theory that batman has often struggled with. it is the idea that HE brought the insanity to gotham. there were never any psycho villains like the joker until after he became batman. so according to that theory, without a batman there would be no insane villains. i think the gotham police department would lose all tolerance of costumed people if batman was gone, since he balances them out.

also, i don't think nolan wants to be tied down with superhero movies for the rest of his life, thats why he's not directing superman. i think once he finished batman he wants to get to HIS stuff, and i dont blame him. but as long as nolan is alive, he will never allow his batman to mingle with other heroes. HIS superman is going to be set in a different world to HIS batman

and when i say to go from burton to shumacher i dont mean the content of the films, i mean they didn't reboot, the movies just ignored each other and kept going.

and he probably should be a little bruised up from the fall but nothing more, like i said he did it like parachutists do it, and so combined with armour, he wouldn't be hurt too much. and he took the brunt of the fall for himself so rachael wasn't hurt. its one of those things where you really just have to watch it closely. he extended his wings, landed with bent knees to absorb any shock, tipped over backwards, and rolled rachael to the side after the fall was over. batman probably was hurt, but they didn't have time to show him get up and limp away or worry about the pain
TheDarqueOne - 9/26/2010, 6:58 PM
Nice article Flames. The comments too have been very good guys. There is a lot I want to respond to but I will start with the article itself.

Since I am one of the sources of opinion that gets referenced in the article I feel the need to explain my position on Christopher Nolan.

He is a fellow 'Christopher' so I do like the guy it is just that the SuperHeros that have existed for 75 years are simply not his cup of tea. What Nolan understands is normal people and normal Heros. The films that Nolan has made about Batman have not been about Batman at all. The focus is actually Bruce Wayne.

There are a couple of aspects of SuperHeros that Nolan does not seem to be able to deal with. The first is that for nearly the whole 75 history of the comics the Heros have worked together. Today when someone new is created they come into being in a multiverse that has had Supers for decades.

To put it simply neither Superman nor Batman would be who they are without the other. Their characters and lives have been connected for 75 years. To say you can simply remove Superman and all that from Batman and still have the same character is simply ridiculous.

The other thing is that real life heros die. For most the way you become a hero is to die doing something brave. We will honor your memory forever for what you have done but you will not be around to enjoy it. SuperHeros you see are different, they are special, they are larger-than-life. They do the heroic and live to tell the tale.

Nolan's Batman is a shadow. An interesting and involving tale to be sure but he is simply not the SuperHero he should be. Focusing on the man under the mask makes for an interesting movie but it also ignores most of what Bats has been doing for 75 years. The real Batman has beaten real threats. Bane, Man-Bat and so many more.

Didja hear he capped Darkseid? *grins*

To be Batman he needs to know Clark. There is no reason to suggest going backwards to some of the campier movies of the past. We can make reality-based movies with multiple SuperHeros it is not really that big of a trick.

Why is Batman in the JLA?

Batman is part of the holy Trinty that includes Superman and Wonder Woman. Now think about that for a moment. Wonder Woman is a female superman and one of the most powerful Heros in the DCU. So the Trinity is a human and 2 gods.

Batman is the brains of the Trinity. Neither of the other two are stupid but they do not have the mind that Bruce posesses. Sure they could do the JLA without Supes and Bats but it would just not be what it should.
Paulley - 9/27/2010, 2:07 AM
Plus you cant build a space sation on a reporters salary.

lol though on a serious note, TheDarqueOne is right on how Nolan looks at the character in a different light. But this is what makes Nolan's movies great.. in fact going abit over the top like a normal comic book movie almost ruined Batman Begins.. so he went back to good simple character pieces and came up with TDK.

But we shouldnt look into this as a problem but a chance to do something abit different.

One of the main problems with comics now are that they have become static, in 30 years time yes there maybe a couple of new characters but do you know what for the most part everything will be exactly the same.

We should embrace Nolan's ideas and make a Nolanverse of DC movies.. his movies are basically Batman: Year One give the character time to progress into one capable of dealing with greater threats, start bring in caracters of the same sort (Green Arrow, Wildcat.. im sure you DC guys can name more) along with proteges (dont wanna use the word sidekick) and over time subtly introducing powered people in a sesible manner.

I would love to Batman down the line deciding that these characters should work together and starting up the league to use his resources to bring everyone together and get them corordinated.

The best representation of JLA on screen came in the DCAU, and that was great and yea some of that stuff (like World Finest) would be pretty awesome in live action but it isnt gonna happen with Nolan's Batman.

Plus you just cant have a "Justice Leugue of America" movie cus any group of people in tights calling themselves that would be just too campy for words lol
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 6:05 AM
Nicely said Paulley but I don't quite agree.

I do not think Nolan's contribution should outweigh 75 years of history. What we have here is one guy who is not a comic Fan and who cannot see how they really work. Ok but there are plenty of other Directors out there.

Nolan can finish his run and do whatever he likes. If he does kill Bats at the end so be it but I bet he leaves the story complete in some fashion. Batman can hang out in limbo for a little while and then be incorporated into a JLA movie with a new Actor. I love Bale but he is not the kind of guy to get locked into a part for too long.

What we need is some good Science Fiction Directors to get involved. I think what Nolan knows he cannot handle is the impact SuperHeros have on the world. Once a Super is known the world around them starts to change. Little things at first but over time almost every single aspect of life gets affected. Nolan does character studies which as small and personal.

I kinda feel the need to state this next part again and clearer...

I think the 75 year history and the work of brilliant creators like Kirby, Lee, Morrision, Byrne, Miller, Adams, and so many others outweigh any single other person. Nolan is great but he's vision of SuperHeros cannot be allowed to overshadow so many great Artists.

And in reference to your last line Paulley it is obvious that every Character used in a film needs some visual updating. Many to need to have their history modernized a bit. But those are the only hurdles that stand in the way of a JLA movie.

Well them and Nolan of course.
Paulley - 9/27/2010, 7:44 AM
Well agreed if you want more classic brightly coloured theatrics in your superhero movies then Nolan's work isnt going to appeal as its more hero than super.

Though its nice to have a more grounded, adult themed version to watch.

But i guess you can argue that DC has always been over-the-top by comparison to other publishers like Marvel so i guess there movies would be too.

CorndogBurglar - 9/27/2010, 11:14 AM
The Avengers aren't a good comparison. They have a history of having lesser powered/no powered people on their team. even Cap can barely be considered as having powers. Nothing about him is "Super". He's got the agility, strength, and stamina of a physically peak NORMAL person. He just has them all in one package, whereas most people spend their entire lives building up one attribute. And he's the quintessential Avenger. Also you mention that it makes sense for Black Widow because she's a member of SHIELD, but in the movies i guarantee Hawkeye will be too. Thats how it was in Ultimates.

JLA's people are always crazy powerful, with the exception of Green Arrow and Bats. Thats why i've always said Batman is a Marvel character who was accidentally born in the DC Universe. He fits in WAY better with the Marvel Knights. Could you picture him swingin around with Spidey, Moon Knight, Daredevil, Iron Fist, and those clowns? He's a perfect fit!

Bats has just never fit in the DCU, as far as i'm concerned.

Anyhow, people seem to forget that it isn't Batman's fighting skills or ability to fight super powered enemies that keep him as a central JLA character. Its his mind. He's the smartest JLA'er there is. If he didn't think of the things he does they would have kicked his silly arse out a long time ago.
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 2:12 PM
@Paulley

"if you want more classic brightly coloured theatrics in your superhero movies..."

Do I detect a hint of 'comics are for kids' attitude there? From your comments I am kinda assuming you are more of a movie fan than a comics one. We have both kinds here which does make for a fair amount of friction.

You said that Nolan almost ruined Batman Begins with some of the action. There was so little of the comic material there it again makes me think you are not looking for comic book content. This is fine if true but it does put us at opposite ends of the viewing spectrum.
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 2:15 PM
@brazilianbatman

Batman is a comic book character. I don't think it is asking too much for him to be done properly. Nolan's movies are great but they are not Batman. I do not want to see the movies simply take what they wish to please the masses. I want the full Art of the Comics to be translated into movies.
Paulley - 9/27/2010, 2:38 PM
@TheDarqueOne the problem is movies are not comic books.. they are two very different beasts... I love comics books and a big fanatic of them (more Marvel than DC) but i understand that if you want to make a comic character in a medium like films you have to look at the history of the character and take the essence and essential parts, and use them to get that character across to the audience.

The transfer to animation is much easier because they are much closer and share alot in common.

What is it about the history of Batman that you think Nolan's films missed on?

(also my comment regarding Batman Begins wasnt the action but the over exaggerated Gotham buildings and monorail, the turning all the water to gas thing.. that stuff just felt out of place)

@CorndogBurglar absolutely right.
flames809 - 9/27/2010, 2:49 PM
Anil- why reboot if you can just open a dc world with batman 3 if Nolan decided to.

tdq- those 75 years were already used in the past movies, but now this era doesn't fit well with a com-icy book movie thats why all marvel and dc have the modern feel to it, which i bet also captain America will have even if he is set in the 1940's. and Nolan doesn't stand away from a jla movie is that batman is still in his early years, to early to be in a team. and i view things from the movie and comic point of view.

brazilianbatman- yea it will be a big mistake rebooting this franchise to get another one and wait longer to get a jla movie and yet they think thats a better way to do it than just taking bale batman and having him in a JLA MOVIE.

CorndogBurglar- yea i know avengers aren't a good comparison but is the first movie with comic book heroes in it that the public knows, and i only read one avenger comic i been up to date with it cause of the how people talk about it. and i think Bruce is smarter than tony since Bruce always thinks ahead of time whats hes going to do.

joekerr93- and i know what you trying to say about the past batman movies but they did it after few years apart.

Paulley- the only one who can pull off a justice league movie and make it works is Nolan and is how he connects the character to the audience thats why i only see him making a justice league movie work.
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 2:52 PM
The question is of course what is essential. I happen to think his 75 year friendship with Clark is rather essential.

A Batman who stood up to the Joker is a fairly tough impressive guy. But the Batman of the comics is far, far more than that. He is legendary. His mere presence affects people in powerful ways. In my opinion he is in fact one of the very key people in the DCU and the reason the JLA are what they are today.

Your comment on the buildings/monorail seems to say that you want all the fantasy removed except for Batman himself. I think that could have worked myself but I do not think it means there cannot be other Heros and Villains in the world.

For me the offensive elements in Nolan's movies are formulaic love stories. To this day I still cringe when in Begins he yells 'Racccccchhhheeeel'. It is just so wrong and so crappy human normal. I mean Bats has a few love stories but he has one that is the classic. He meets this insane bitch on the rooftops. First they try to kill each other for a while and then they find better things to do with each other.

Anything less than that is an insult to what Batman has been for his whole existence. I mean is Batman really no better than any other action movie star? They have to have a romance too but I can understand that far easier. Batman alone is enough to get people into the theater. Then you tell a good exciting story about Batman doing his thing.
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 2:55 PM
@Flames

Nolan will not do a JLA movie. He won't even do a team-up. He acknowledges that they are the basis of the comics but that is all. Nolan has been very direct on this subject. He does not see a way to do a JLA movie and does not want any part of one. Sorry but I doubt we will see that change.



Paulley - 9/27/2010, 3:11 PM
Yea i would have liked to have seen Catwoman too.. rather than Rachel but thats why he killed here

The over the top buildings and monorail didnt work that why it was removed, and it was a batman movie, so yea you cant throw Clark Kent in there.. atleast not right away.

Its not like the first seasons of Batman TAS had Superman in.
flames809 - 9/27/2010, 3:17 PM
tdq- if you want the full art of the comics to come to life in a movie then see Zack synder comic book movies his movies are page by page an also word by word by the characters in the comics or you can read a comic. and im not trying to be mean but you don't need movies to be like a comic book if thats what comics are for. and Nolan movies are batman movies even if you don't look at it that way is just a modern take on batman an Thor an ironman an hulk. and Nolan batman movies are the only one that got batman and Bruce Wayne right from the previous film and also his villains. what did Nolan do 2 the new batman movies that you don't like?
flames809 - 9/27/2010, 3:28 PM
tdq- yea i know he won't, but you never know cause he said he never would do a superman movie and know hes god-fathering it, so you never know. and him screaming Rachael while shes dieing dude his first love before he meets catwomen and his human makes sense that he has emotion and cares for Gotham than the cops an the people in it and his best friend/ first love. and he needs a push to become batman which is Rachael and his parents death.
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 3:33 PM
I came up with a perfect little analogy.

Imagine they made a movie staring Harry Potter. But it had no Hogwarts, no Voldemort and no magical Community whatsoever. Harry is the only Wizard in the world and the whole movie is about him dealing with that.

The name Harry Potter would bring in a lot of people. And if you managed to make a 'good movie' you might even get raves from Critics and non-Fans alike.

But if you are a Fan of Harry Potter you might just want to kill yourself. To me this is what has been done with the Batman films. I think they are fine films but they have taken Batman completely out of context. I like the context just like my wife loves Hogwarts.


@Paulley

Supes would not have to be in either of the movies we have so far. But the plain fact is that he does not exist and as long as Nolan is in charge they will never connect. I do think Nolan is amazingly talented he just does not get the whole comic book MultiVerse idea. The comic worlds are just too far from his view of reality to make sense I think.

@Flames

I like Watchmen quite a bit but I think that is going a bit too far. Direct translation is interesting but I don't think it is the way to go with most stories.

I understand the difficulties and complexites of translation to film far better than most people frankly. I accept changes like Spider-Man's web shooters as positive things because I think they helped the story to work. But there is a big difference between little details and what bugs me about Nolan's take on Batman.


flames809 - 9/27/2010, 4:40 PM
brazilianbatman- right dude, but they can just continue with bale until bale gets tired of batman

tdo- i didn't like watchmen at all cause it was the same as the comic. look dude who cares if batman is set in the real world and is the only hero there he is still batman and the batman comic world was already use in 4 different batman movies and it failed each 3 times and you think is going to work again? this is why Nolan changed the batman to the modern world he took him in a different direction which worked. and is all about batman and Bruce which is also different. and if what you said of harry happen there couldn't have no sense of making a harry movie cause his main villain is not there, a least Nolan batman had the joker batman archenemy and had a reason for batman. your saying of harry potter he will have no reason since he got no bad guy to fight. and what bugs u about Nolan batman because those are the best batman movies to date.
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 5:05 PM
@Flames

They would invent new things for Harry to deal with. But in fact that is a pretty exact comparison to what Nolan did with Batman.

Nolan's Batman are some of the best Batman movies to date I agree. I do still have quite a bit of love for the 2 Burton Batmans though. I like the new ones but I cannot help but miss the context. I believe there is a whole lot of comic material that has not been covered so the former movies do not present a problem for me.

@brazilianbatman

I am not in favor of a reboot either. They just need a new Director. I don't think Bale will play Batman beyond III but you never know.

flames809 - 9/27/2010, 5:22 PM
tdo- but still if that happen to harry it will still be a harry potter movie about him just like the books but a different take which i will accept like Nolan batman are and it's to batman comics than Burton movie were. and there Nolan just made a young batman and put him in a world we can relate to
joekerr93 - 9/27/2010, 5:55 PM
TheDarqueOne - Why does Nolan have to reuse the seventy years of material? Why can't he add to it with his own story? And btw, he has used quite a bit of material, as far as the characters go. I don't think that directors should have to use other people's stories to tell their own. Nolan is basically creating an Elseworlds tale in which Batman is the only hero in a modern, real world.

The essence of all the characters is the same, everyone acts as they should, and Nolan tells an original tale. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but it seems that you would rather see adaptations of pre-existing comic book stories

As for your Harry Potter analogy, that doesn't compare because books and comic books are two different things. As you have said many times, there are 70 years of material to pick and choose from, and to add to, whereas with book series there is one story to tell, with one interpretation of the characters.

Also Harry Potter is too new to have anyone [frick]ing with, it hasn't been around long enough for anyone to adapt or change to their own standards and stories. Maybe one day if Harry Potter keeps going (awful idea) with different authors and interpretations, then we can start messing with the characters and stories
TheDarqueOne - 9/27/2010, 7:08 PM
@jokerr93

If people want to create new Heros like say Hancock then great. That is a flawed movie but I still like it quite a bit. But if you are going to do Batman then you have some obligation to use more than the name and look.

I am not trashing Nolan in the usual sense since I do appreciate his movies. While I would like to see some of the actual comic book stories done I realize how tough that can be. But I still cannot help but wish for the whole experience which involves Batman in some version of the DCU.

For example I have an appreciation for what Smallville has done. They have created their own version of the DCU and it has shows that I love to death. I simply cannot put into words how much I adore Absolute Justice.

The solo Hero is just one tiny little bit of what SuperHeros have always been. I am up for new interpretations but they have to avoid the total solo idea to reach their potential heights.

The Harry Potter comparison was to show what happens when you take away the context. The fact that it is too new for this to happen does not really matter for this example. Mostly I was trying to point out that anybody's story has a lot more to it than just a few elements. What matters is how that movie would be received by the Fans. Since it is a very current thing I think you would get a more unified reaction. Comic Fans cover such a wide spectrum of ages and levels of involvement that reactions are always mixed on anything.


joekerr93 - 9/27/2010, 10:27 PM
not trying to sound like a jerk but you avoided my whole point. nolan's batman is batman, the character is what batman is supposed to be, the villains are what they should be. nolan just told a new tale that he, his brother, and goyer came up with. he referenced the comic books a lot more than many other movie makers would have. he is no different than mark millar making red son, or any of the other writers who did elseworld tales. do you have a problem with the elseworld stories? this is just an original on screen elseworld.

and in this particular elseworld, nolan took the what if concept that is integral to the ew series and said what if batman was the only hero, and what if batman lived in the real world. did you have a problem when mark millar said what if superman was communist? because that is far more distant from what superman should be than anything nolan has done.

or what if batman lived in victorian london and was the only hero = gotham by gaslight

i know i am repeating myself, but i am dead tired and am trying to get this out before i forget.

as for harry potter, i get what you are saying but harry potter is one story. one vision. one interpretation, and any comic book is comprised of decades and decades of stories, visions, interpretations.

"The solo Hero is just one tiny little bit of what SuperHeroes have always been" - well that is the bit that nolan wanted to focus his series on. other directors will focus on other parts of the superhero concept. correct me if i'm wrong but you think all heroes have to coexist every single time they come on screen. that is a very limited thinking imo. people like nolan like to take the ordinary and shake it up, show us something new and original. these people can never satisfy everyone, and they shouldn't have to. you say heroes have to be together and coexist, well i say its interesting to dissect the hero concept and see what each hero is capable of alone, without any other influences or allies. only one of us can be happy, and it looks like for now that will be me.

i would love to do a superhero franchise, and incorporate all the other heroes into it ex. having a batman movie with superman in it, but this time around i would like to see something a little more creative and original
TheDarqueOne - 9/28/2010, 4:36 AM
Batman is far less than he could be. I am addressing your central point very directly. I agree that Nolan got a whole lot right. He did very well with taking Batman out of context and making a couple of above-average movies. Great movies really ok I am not saying they are not. Begins far more so than TDK for me unlike most. Which is odd because I generally like IIs better than Is.

But he is still lacking. This is because Nolan cannot see how to handle anything beyond normal. He acknowledges that comics are not pure reality and that they are a shared universe but that is not what he does. I like Batman Begins by far the best because at that point I still had hope for Nolan.

When I got close to seeing Dark Knight I knew that I was not going to get the full on bad-ass Batman I wanted. Instead of giving Batman someone he could fight Nolan gave him a Joker that was going to screw with his head. Cool and well done. Heath was brilliant of course.

But forgive me if what I wanted to see was Batman actually kicking someone's ass that was worthy of his skills. I had hoped that in the second movie he would fight someone and begin to earn his legendary rap. But what happened instead? The bad guy pretty much won 2 out of 3 and Bats is running from the cops! I know it is not a bad story but we only get a few movies at best and what I want to see is Batman being good at what he does.

I know TDK is part II of III but I also know he did not write all 3 in the beginning. I know he wishes to 'end the story' in some fashion rather than leaving it open. So ok he makes this cool set of Batman movies and then ends it? He cannot just leave it open for someone else? I mean really does he have to hold onto Batman that tight? This I am sorry to say evokes a little bit of anger in me. Batman is bigger than you Mr. Christopher Nolan.

Frankly I realize why Nolan won't deal with the bigger aspects of Batman. His modeling of the people of Gotham leaves something to be desired. Oh he got some stuff right (the guys dressing up as Batman were perfect) but he missed a lot. While there would be a segment of society that would want Batman to give in to stop Joker there would in fact be a much larger, much more vocal group that would say 'Hell no we won't give in to that psycho bastard. Batman go find this guy and kill him for us!'.

Science Fiction, which is what SuperHero stories really are, is very much about being able to deal with Society as a whole. To show the impact a new tech or new Hero has on them. Over time things slowly change and how well you do that has a lot to do with how well people accept the story.

Christopher Nolan makes movies about individuals. SuperHero stories are about the whole world.

The one real bright spot in CBM land is the trio of Captain America, Thor & The Avengers. They are doing it up right and proper. I have faith in Joss and since Marvel is a young Studio they are only slightly Evil so that is a far cry from the Ancient Evil that is oh say Fox.
Paulley - 9/28/2010, 3:13 PM
Well atleast thats one thing we agree on Marvel have the best chance by far to truly get a movie-universe.. without being tied down by studios that dont have a real insight into the shared world these characters were brought up in.

But Marvels universe is a much easier world to transfer over.
TheDarqueOne - 9/29/2010, 1:57 PM
True we do agree on that.

I think Marvel is easier but DC is not that much harder. They just have to want to do it which right now seems unlikely.
vindicator919 - 9/30/2010, 8:52 AM
...NOLAN HAS SET UP THE BEGINING OF BATMAN WITH ALL THREE FILMS...HE SET THE STANDARD OF WHAT BATMAN SHOULD BE LIKE...ITS UP TO THE FUTURE DIRECTORS TO KEEP IT GOING THE WAY IT IS ONCE NOLAN IS DONE...LEARN FROM HIM INSTEAD OF TAKING AWAY...& REMEMBER...IT'S NEVER THE END FOR THE DARK KNIGHT....
TheDarqueOne - 9/30/2010, 2:32 PM
Well with the way Hollywood thinks these days I really don't expect the series to continue after III.

Then I am sad to say I expect them to try and reboot. But honestly from the things Nolan has said I wonder how he will leave it. He has said he is against leaving the ending open but he could be forced into doing exactly that.

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