COMICS: Axel Alonso Says Marvel Considered Killing Off The Avengers In AVENGERS VS. X-MEN

Marvel Comics Editor-in-Chief Axel Alonso talks about how they don't really think about the movies when it comes to making drastic changes such as those seen in "Avengers NOW", and goes on to reveal that there was at one point talk of taking out Earth's Mightiest Heroes as part of Avengers Vs. X-Men...

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By Josh Wilding - 7/19/2014

Talking to Comic Book Resources in their weekly "Axel-In-Charge" column, Marvel E-i-C Axel Alonso was quizzed about whether Marvel make certain creative decisions with characters (the "Superior" Spider-Man for example) because they don't hold the rights to them on the movie front. Of course, that clearly isn't the case due to the fact that Captain America, Iron Man and Thor are about to undergo some major changes. "Look, whether we own the media rights to a character informs so little of what we do in editorial. Our job -- my job -- is to tell stories that sell comics. And we want all our comics to sell. To the whole society of fans that think that we're trying to bury or kill the X-Men, that's just plain crazy. [Laughs] There's a reason that Brian Michael Bendis is writing "All-New X-Men." There's a reason we're doing "Death of Wolverine," and promoting the hell out of it. Because we want them to sell. It's important that we maintain and grow the popularity of characters that are already popular, and that we elevate characters we want to make popular -- like Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Inhumans and Doctor Strange."

It's interesting that Alonso mentions the X-Men because there has been talk of Marvel taking both them and the Fantastic Four off the table in the near future because certain higher ups don't want to help promote the movies that they don't hold the rights to; they would rather keep the focus on the likes of the Avengers, and to a lesser extent, Spider-Man (as they hold the merchandising rights to that character). However, if you needed further proof that Marvel aren't afraid to do whatever they please in the comics, there was at one point talk of completely getting rid of Earth's Mightiest Heroes during the Avengers Vs. X-Men event in 2012.

"Without a doubt," Alonso said when asked about fans not necessarily expecting Marvel to make such drastic changes to Captain America, Iron Man and Thor just 10 months before Avengers: Age of Ultron is released. "At my very first summit as Marvel editor-in-chief, the one that birthed "Avengers vs. X-Men," we seriously considered a plot twist that would have killed the Avengers -- taking them completely off the table. Certain people advocated for that hard -- I was not one of them! [Laughs] --- and we were staring at an event that would overlap the first movie. Of course, that idea didn't end up winning -- thank God! -- but it was on the table." That would have been very interesting to see, especially as it would have positioned the X-Men as the Marvel Universe's main superhero team. It's also worth wondering which characters they would have allowed to survive. What do you guys think? Sound off with your thoughts below!
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staypuffed - 7/19/2014, 5:21 AM
There was tons of interesting stuff in that interview, I did notice that.
Maven - 7/19/2014, 5:23 AM
Well you're slowly killing 'em now anyway, so yeah.
TheDudeRusty - 7/19/2014, 5:23 AM
"we elevate characters we want to make popular -- like Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Inhumans and Doctor Strange." Inhumans movie confirmed.
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 5:33 AM
interesting. I got the feeling tho that he meant not kill them dead, but end the idea of Avengers as a team. i don't know why, it could be taken either way, but something about the phrasing and him saying take them off the table or whatever, makes me think he meant Avengers as a team.

there was a part at the end of the interview when he's asked about how long they expect to keep all these changes that's interesting too.

becuz he's talking about Jason Aaron, and that everytime Alonso brings up an exit plan for the new Thor, Aaron runs out the room. and he's joking obviously, but it's interesting becuz this seems to be Aaron's idea if that's true. Alonso is saying he's asking Aaron what his plans are for it.
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 5:38 AM
so many people exaggerate the effects the movies have had on comic books.

it's always said as this thing that's just assumed true, like "everybody knows, look, they're totally making everything in the comics like the MCU"

and it's just not true.

it's so ridiculously untrue. at least in the way that most people talk about it. I think people just think they're stupid if they don't pretend to be cynical about everything. cuz it's not even actually cynicism. it's just this blind dumb faith that everything is always becuz of something dumb.

cynicism would totally be the wrong word for it. it has more in common with naivete, i think. cuz it gets to the level of dumb where people will say things like, "tshhh... they're just advertising this so much cuz they wanna make money."

it's some kind of full loop of stupidity that has brought people all the way around and back to complete naivete thru this desire to be cynical and sarcastic.
ManDeth - 7/19/2014, 5:44 AM
"Our job -- my job -- is to tell stories that sell comics. And we want all our comics to sell."

So there you have it. Axel Alonzo admitting that Marvel Comics has no interest in creating entertainment.

"Stories that sell comics" he says. Meaning gimmicks and stunts like Thor-Girl and the rest of their garbage ideas. Novelty ideas that get you to buy their comics but not great stories to give you a good time.

Sorry Axel but I'm not giving you my cash for your damn stunts anymore. In a country of 330 million you have an audience of around 70k and falling. I already knew why Marvel sucks but it's good to hear the dumbass admit it.
Even if he didn't realize that is what he was doing.
pepe - 7/19/2014, 5:46 AM
Aaaaand..... Heroes reborn 2...
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 5:49 AM
it's definitely true that comics and the movies about comics are influencing each other more than they have before, and there's a lot of examples of bad ways where the MCU is influencing the comics. but it's not as simple to point out as the type of junk that people complain about here and then say "smh".

it's not anything insidious, it's entirely natural, and there's lots to say about whether it's good, bad, or just a change. it's things that affect how comic books are made at a way more fundmental level than "smh. Peter will be back by TASM 2. smh. smh. now Fury's black too. smh smh. Deathlok is in a train station and his costume is different. smh"

and anyone who thinks Marvel doesn't pay enough attention to X-Men or is trying to torpedo that property somehow is absolutely [frick]ing so delusional that god knows what else they think is true in the world.

and if something doesn't fit the paranoid delusions of one set of people, it's just ignored as another set of people adopt it to fit their own personal paranoid delusions. Thor's a woman, well that's not like the MCU, but it's the PC Police delusion. Iron Man is superior and gonna act like a dickhead, well that doesn't fit the "Tony is in everything becuz of the MCU delusion" but it's good for maybe some other weird delusion. and everyone always acts like everything was perfect until like this year or something. as if they haven't been doing boneheaded things since the 60s.
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 5:51 AM
616 for life, Marvel has never rebooted 616 since it was created.

hasn't happened.
:P
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 5:59 AM
@ManDeth - that's not what he's saying tho. that's why you might see as being what that is gonna translate to in real life. and that's a valid thing to think and it's an interesting thing to talk about.


but that's not what he is saying, obviously.
what he is saying is good things and fresh ideas will sell more. that's what that means. I'm not saying his idea of good things means anything, but it's obvious he is not saying "we don't care about what's good or not, we just wanna make money and trick people." haha. who the hell would say that?

any "gimmick" comes down to whether the comics are good or not. if they aren't good, don't read em. if they are, well that's another great thing made from bizarre and boneheaded intentions. pretty much the history of comic books is simply that. why do they put them out every month? why not put them out when you have a good idea? why charge money for them, why not just put out ones whenever you can afford to do it?

all this stuff is driven by business and great things happen both despite and becuz of that.

i'm just saying it's more complicated than how you're presenting it. cuz that doesn't even get to any little bit of the truth about things.
Bl00dwerK - 7/19/2014, 5:59 AM
Where's the X-Men panel at SDCC, then? Don't give me that Axis crap, either...
Stubner - 7/19/2014, 6:00 AM
It's funny that some people will look at a comment like....


"There's a reason we're doing "Death of Wolverine," and promoting the hell out of it. Because we want them to sell."



..and condemn this man to hell....
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 6:02 AM
and he's going out of his way to make it a point that, at least with Cap and Thor, these changes are owned by the current writers of those books.

that's something he is trying to get across here, cuz he realizes that people are thinking that editorial pushed this onto the books. do he think he's lying about that?
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 6:05 AM
@bl00dwerk - so you think that Marvel is not gonna talk or announce anything X-Men related, except AXIS, at SDCC?

why does Marvel have so many goddam X-Men titles if they are trying to sink the X-Men? how does that make any sense to you? do you know how many X-Men related titles they have?


well there's too many. however many there are. there's too many.
there's no agenda against the X-Men from Marvel Comics. what panels do they actually have at SDCC?
deepee3 - 7/19/2014, 6:06 AM
Jeeez....

Remember when cool, dramatic and epic events happened in comics WITHOUT press releases, talk show appearances and attempts to excite people who could care less about comics? Remember when you were genuinely SHOCKED that a character died, or turned evil or even changed costumes?

Axel Alonso is just another failure as EIC for Marvel. I'm waiting for the day when the EIC of Marvel (and DC) starts acting like the curators of the great properties that they have been given. The 'death of Wolverine' is a friggin' joke.

What he essentially said is "We have to keep churning out these gimmicks attached to our most popular characters because that's the only time we see any significant pulse in our sales numbers." "We have spent that past two decades making comics for ourselves and warping these classic characters to our whims and as a result have taken comics out of the hands of the kids they were meant for and turned them into the dismal fodder for grown men we have today."

And here come the 'fans'! All 50 to 100,000 of them who slink into their local comic book stores on a monthly basis. Lapping up this tripe like its new and special. Maybe Jon Stewart will mention it! Maybe Joe Quesada will appear on Colbert! The View told us Thor is a woman now! That must mean its IMPORTANT and they mean it this time! Don't look now....Captain America is BLACK! AGAIN! Yay PROGRESS!

Pathetic.
Raehn - 7/19/2014, 6:12 AM
That's a lame argument. We talked about ALMOST MAYBE killing off the avengers. Well, you didn't. I have discussed the possibility of doing lots of things in life. It doesn't really show anything about myself. What I actually do is what I will be judged by.
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 6:13 AM
if you watch the View or the Colbert Report, you're really the only one making it seem important.

i've never seen an episode of either one of those shows. who cares who is on them? I agree about a lot of what else you said, but who cares about whatever motivations you're projecting onto them?

the comics will come out and they'll good or they'll be bad. and Thor and Cap will be written by the same people who are writing them this month.
might be good or it might be bad. Superior was great.

Cap hasn't been all that great in a while it seems like. at least i don't think so. off on on pretty cool, but not great. shouldn't that be the problem and not Wilson Cap and the Colbert Report?

what do those shows have to do with anything?
Rpendo - 7/19/2014, 6:15 AM
Then go buy some Image comics, deepee.

The wonderful thing about Marvel is, if you don't like what they're doing, you don't have to buy their stuff. There are plenty of alternatives out there.

You can't blame them for making comics with the intent of having them sell. They'd be a fairly crappy company if they didn't do that.

You lament the idea that kids used to be into comics and now they aren't, as though that's somehow comic's fault, and not the fault of TV, videogames, cell-phones, etc., taking kids attention away. Time marches on.

Also, RANDOMLY capitalizing WORDS for dramatic EFFECT makes your comment read like some kind of malcontented lunatic WROTE IT.
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 6:23 AM
@Rpendo - well, I gotta AGREE with you! There IS no reason why bears HAVE TO always eat food by THEMSELVES. i've met LOTS of bears who would enjoy having food with other things AND animals too.

I DONT appreciate people talking about bears the way that SOME PEOPLE around here do. quite frankly.
dethpillow - 7/19/2014, 6:25 AM
it's CraZY. diD you knOw...//bEarS accOunT fOr AlmoSt.../%%^./..hAlf the poPulAtioN oF caLiforNIA?
...//sOunDs CraZy, I kNoW, bUt It--'S trUE!
Jollem - 7/19/2014, 6:34 AM
CorndogBurglar - 7/19/2014, 6:36 AM
How did they go from almost killing the Avengers to making everyone in ghe MU a member of the Avengers?

I'm being sarcastic of course, but seriously, the Avengers came out of AvX witg a seriously bolstered roster, many characters of which were X-Men. Just makes me wonder how they made that big jump.
FrankBerzerk - 7/19/2014, 6:42 AM
crappy whiners, if they dont make comic just to sell, then for what?
good story?
alot of good tittles are at low sales and at the edge of canceling.
like superior foes of sp m, or hawkeye
whiners here scream crappy stuff about death of the wolverine , saying again and again that they dont want to read it. but i well damn sure that none of them know what the heck happened in issue 15 of Hawkeye
yeah, you dont know what happened?
what happened is that people whine about there are no good story at marvel comci right now for them to buy, but the truth is they dont buy good story , and dont know that good stuff still out there, and then came a day good tittles been canceled. and then there are less and less good titles. all because of those whiners. yeah. keep whinning. and let good serie die.
yeah, that's it, good story not alway sale good.
Jollem - 7/19/2014, 6:48 AM
@FrankBerzerk - valid points. there are a lot of hidden gems out there
InfiniteMonkey - 7/19/2014, 6:49 AM
I love the Hawkeye run right now and I hope it continues.

Some of you guys need to get with the current times of Marketing and Advertising.
That includes Television promotion as well to get to those hard to reach demographics.
Seriously, write your own comic and try to market it to support your costs and love for it, then you might get an inkling of how it is to run a company called Marvel or DC of the comics side.

Kill Wolverine though, honestly.
Getting sick and tired of his complete run for the past decade or so.
He even took over the movies.
Cyclops is the leader and they should make it as such in the movies. LOL
Jollem - 7/19/2014, 6:56 AM
@InfiniteMonkey - i hear ya, but i don't think wolverine "took over" the movies as much as some people like to say. i do agree that cyclops should have been a little more prominent. cyke did have the presence of the "leader", tho

some people might say the same for cap in the avengers. i think he could use a little more "leaderin'" goin' on. i'll give the movie the benefit of the doubt of the team first coming together. they should really put cap in the leader spot in A2 and all the promotional stuff. i'm kinda sick of iron man being front and center in every single kind of avengers merchandise
Jollem - 7/19/2014, 6:58 AM
and yes, i am aware that iron man was kinda the leader of the avengers at the very start. but, for like, 4 issues or something? not that much. i've always seen it as cap's team
Irohny - 7/19/2014, 7:10 AM
@TheDudeRusty thats exactly how I took that too
Battabing - 7/19/2014, 7:15 AM
I wonder why he thinks FalCap will sell more comics when he's got the worst Captain America writer in 10 years (Rick Remender) at the helm. Sales of Captain America tanked with Steve thanks to Rick. You have a $700M movie with the character and his comic stinks.

Don't even get me started on Thor Woman.
ManCalledSting - 7/19/2014, 7:19 AM
They may have never "rebooted", but they sure have retconned the shit of the characters and stories, and crammed a bunch of the movies into 616. So it's kind of a "pick your poison" moment.
ChuckV - 7/19/2014, 8:22 AM
Axel Alonso is clueless ... to admit what he said about selling comics with gimmicks and DEATH shows how misguided MARVEL is. That's why it's so hard to keep readers these days.
binky986 - 7/19/2014, 8:54 AM
The last time Marvel made it more about sales than the fans, didn't they go bankrupt?

Personally, nothing from Marvel gets me excited anymore. Lady Thor and Cap Falcon or whatever the heck they'll call him is yet another floundering idea to "get readers".

And they do change everything when movies come out 'cause that's when they get new readers - Spider-Man: The Other was right around the first Spider-man, and he "evolved" and got organic web shooters; Marvel NOW! was right after the Avengers movie. So yeah, I think it's safe to say the MCU has an influence on the 616 universe.
ruadh - 7/19/2014, 9:03 AM
Ah, they've been doing gimmicks for decades now. Killing characters (Superman's death received tons of news coverage), multiple covers, hologram covers, foil covers, chase variants etc. And there was a boom in the 90s because so many people who weren't readers were buying up these things as investments. When they finally figured out the true value of these things, the comic industry sank back down to struggling.

I remember a panel in the early 90s at comic con where they were basically asking everyone in the audience how the hell to get more readers?!

I really don't see how now is different from then, as far as what they put out. Still multiple covers, still killing major characters etc.
0megaDaGod - 7/19/2014, 9:12 AM
@ruadh

Exactly
ruadh - 7/19/2014, 9:39 AM
Thank you.

Also "stories that sell comics" are actually not gimmicks etc. The gimmicks may get a new reader to buy a comic, but it's a safe bet they are aware that it's good stories, entertainment, that will get that person to buy the next issue a month later.

When I was a kid, it was usually a neat cover, or an interesting character that would get me to try a new book. And then I'd have to go to town on back issues.
Jackraow21 - 7/19/2014, 9:50 AM
I don't believe a word of his "the films aren't really driving the comics" crap. Just look at what Marvel is doing:

- Promoting the hell out of the Avengers. Marvel NOW has become just Avengers NOW.
- Pushing Guardians, Winter Soldier, Doc Strange and Ant Man hard as hell.
- Killing off the X-men's most popular character with no "exit strategy" for bringing him back.
- Further integrating the X-men into the Avengers books via Uncanny Avengers and AXIS.
- Canceling the Fantastic Four comic.
- Trying to make the Inhumans happen as a "hated and feared" group of heroes (good luck with that).

Yeah, I'm sure this is all just coincidence and occurring organically based on the stories their writers want to tell... *rollseyes*

Hell, I even think Sam Wilson as Cap may be teeing it up so that Anthony Mackie can take over for Chris Evans when he decides he's done. Evans has said before that he wants to direct and quit acting.

So pull the other one Alonso. I'm not buying what you are selling here, man. Sorry.
Lizardking310 - 7/19/2014, 10:02 AM
"Marvel Comics Editor-in-Chief Axel Alonso talks about how they don't really think about the movies when it comes to making drastic changes such as those seen in "Avengers NOW"



Yeah right ! That's why Peter Parker conviniently returned before TASM 2.... And that's why all the avengers will return before AOU next year ! Guaranteed Steve Rogers becomes Cap and the real Thor gets his hammer back from lady-Thor shit you'll even see Stark back to a gold and red armor!..... Drastic changes isn't good story telling it's just a quick grab for attention!
ruadh - 7/19/2014, 10:02 AM
Evans did an interview to clarify that he does NOT want to quit acting. People insist on perpetuating it though.
ruadh - 7/19/2014, 10:05 AM
And again, "drastic changes" is nothing new in comics. They do this, then go back later to status quo. Always. And yeah, I think he's downplaying how much the movies affect the comics (everyone switched to black leather uniforms after the first XMen movie came out), but peter parker was coming back anyway. The avengers will always come back, movie or not.
rabid - 7/19/2014, 10:42 AM
X-Sanction set up a nice future timeline where the Avengers turn against the X-Men. I have a feeling that this prophecy will slowly come to fruition over the next few years and be the factor that kicks the mutants off the Avengers team. We're already seeing one of Cable's predictions coming true in Superior Iron Man.
But I'm more interested in the prophecy of the Marvel Now timetraveler that dropped in to talk to Fury.
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