THE DARK KNIGHT RISES: SPOILER Discussion

Christopher Nolan's final Batman movie opened yesterday and the big mysteries were finally revealed. We will discuss them all here, so obviously if you haven't seen the movie yet, DON'T CLICK!..

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By Mark "RorMachine" Cassidy - 7/21/2012
I don't think a CBM has ever been more shrouded in secrecy before, and even with plenty of rumors and speculation flying around, nobody really quite knew what to expect when the curtains opened. Here we'll discuss the major plot points and reveals in a bit of detail, so it goes without saying..

MASSIVE SPOILER WARNING




He Hasn't Been Batman In 8 Years! Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?


We'll start with Bruce Wayne hanging up the cowl for 8 years. In the beginning we find him a broken recluse, hiding away from the world. When fans heard that this would be part of the plot, there were mixed reactions. Some felt that Wayne would never give up being Batman for any reason, and that it was extremely out of character. Well, he doesn't decide to stop being Batman only because of Rachel's death. It is a combination of many things, including the fact that Gotham no longer needs the Caped Crusader now that organized crime is all but eliminated thanks to the Harvey Dent Act -- also something weighing heavily on Wayne's conscience as it is all built around a lie. This is clearly taken, in part, from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, and in the context of this particular story I think it works brilliantly. What about you guys?

Bane Is Big


There was a lot of controversy surrounding the big fella, primarily because fans thought he wasn't big enough. Well, rest easy. As any reasonable minded person probably already guessed they would, they make him look much bigger than Tom Hardy actually is -- the magic of movie making eh? But one thing that isn't really expanded upon is the mask. We already knew it was going to be used to provide him constant anesthesia against terrible pain, but aside from that just being mentioned once and us finding out what caused his injuries, it's pretty much left alone. No, we never find out how he eats! So there are a lot of changes made with this character no doubt, but the movie incarnation is so effective I really don't think many -- aside from the real hardcore purists -- will mind too much. His dialog is fantastic, and he definitely get some of the best lines in the movie -- " "You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it. Molded by it", "What a lovely lovely voice" etc. The one issue I had was not with the character, but how he checks out in the end. After being set up as such an unstoppable force, a plot twist (more on that later) kind of reduces him to henchman status, before he is dispatched far too unceremoniously by Catwoman. I just think such a great villain deserved a better send off. That being said, by that point the movie was racing towards its climax and there was SO much going on, to drag it out any more may have felt over indulgent.

Surprise Surprise, Anne Hathaway is Great As Catwoman


"She'll suck, she's terrible, I hate her!" She didn't, she isn't, and there's no accounting for taste. Seriously though, Hathaway pretty much steals the show as Selina Kyle. It seems Nolan finally managed to give us a n interesting, fully developed female character. Kyle is never referred to as Catwoman, but honestly was there a point in the movie when she could have been without it sounding forced? She never dons a cowl, never uses a whip, and doesn't have claws - and it makes not a lick of difference because the essence of the character is 100% Catwoman. My one complaint is that she kinda disappears for a good chunk of the movie when she's sent to prison, but with so many characters and plot-lines being juggled that's understandable. Her presence is missed though.

Marion Cotillard Was Fibbing, Miranda Tate Is Talia Al Ghul (Of Course)


This was probably the worst best kept secret. They may have gotten away with it if not for those set pics of Cotillard hanging out with the bad guys looking like...Talia Al Ghul, but I think most of us fanboys and girls knew what to expect. But, remember that most cinema goers probably wouldn't have, and in that respect her reveal works as a great twist. There are only a couple of hints that Tate may not be all she seems, and for the most part I think the majority of the audiences I watched it with (both times) were genuinely shocked.

John Blake IS Robin. Sort Of


This is the one that most fans will have a problem with I think. It turns out that idealistic young rozzer John Blake's real name is Robin, and he does indeed take over the mantle of Batman in the wake of Bruce Wayne's "departure". The reveal will either excite and delight you, or have you rolling your eyes. Obviously "Robin" is an alias adopted by several of Batman's sidekicks over the years, but here we are told it is actually Blake's real first name. Surely having his actual name be Richard Grayson would have been better? Well yes, except I understand why they didn't do that -- too many people wouldn't have a clue who that was! Plus, Blake could be seen as an amalgamation of Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd so pinning one of those names on him wouldn't have completely matched up with his back-story. I liked the reveal for the purpose of the story, it was a great way to end the movie, but I do think it might have been handled better.

Batman DOES Die. Sort Of


At the end we do get the big emotional payoff, as Batman sacrifices himself to save Gotham, as well as a heart breaking moment with Alfred at his graveside (though a bit more time spent here wouldn't have hurt). But then there is the big reveal that Bruce Wayne actually survived and finally began his life with Selina Kyle. Or did he? Many people seem to have missed this but myself and a few others I have spoken too believe this MIGHT have simply been all in Alfred's head, as he finally spots his beloved friend and surrogate son happy for the first time in the little cafe he always imagined him in. Obviously the "Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot on The Bat" reveal and a few other things suggest that he did in fact escape the explosion, but I dunno. I think Nolan may have chosen to leave this part ambiguous, bringing us back into Inception territory. Thoughts?




So that's about it for the biggest discussion topics raised in the movie, obviously there are more so feel free to bring them up in the usual place.









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463 Comments
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NICOLASCAGE - 7/21/2012, 7:21 AM
Awsome movie
ChromaCut - 7/21/2012, 7:22 AM
Best, film, ever...
NeoBaggins - 7/21/2012, 7:23 AM
Oh, and Bane DOES break Batman's back. I didn't think it would be added so literally. It is a direct homage. It was epic too. Sorry for doubting. It was just too good to be true.

Dynamo - 7/21/2012, 7:24 AM
While Hathaway did do a great job, I just feel Catwoman didn't fit into this kind of story.

I however, loved John Blake as a character. And his relationship with Bruce was my favourite in the movie.
NICOLASCAGE - 7/21/2012, 7:24 AM
Cotillard perfect for that role she looks so honest its perfect, unless you on came here and already knew she was talia
PINO - 7/21/2012, 7:24 AM
The only part I hated was John Blake revealing that his real name is Robin. I don't think it served any real purpose.

BTW, did anyone else get MAJOR goosebumps when Bruce finally climbed out of the hole? Best moment of the trilogy for me.
spidey1994 - 7/21/2012, 7:25 AM
Me and my friend were like "HOLY SHIT!!!" when John Blake's real name turned out to be Robin lol and I still don't know how Batman survived the explosion.
Ricbr - 7/21/2012, 7:25 AM
He was alive at the end. The autopilot was fixed by Bruce.... And the pearls were missing (I believe Selena was wearing them in Paris with Bruce) But with those two items alone on top of Alfred seeing them it really shouldnt be looked at any other way.
StrangeBlackPantherDoctor - 7/21/2012, 7:25 AM
Favorite trilogy ever.
Fantine - 7/21/2012, 7:25 AM
Anne Hathaway was truly amazing can we agree on that?

She STOLE THE SHOW! Her acting in her first scene was incredible, when she turned from nervous maid "Im sorry Mr Wayne" to "oops" it was amazing.

Her chemistry with Batman was electric, the sexual tension was amazing, I'm glad he ended up with her in the end. Catwoman is the only match for Batman.

Her scene in the bar, where she preteneded to scream and act on the floor was brilliant! and funny!

She was one of the best things about the film.

BEST MOVIE EVER!!!
BIGBMH - 7/21/2012, 7:26 AM
I'm happy for everyone who was satisfied with this movie, but I really think they dropped the ball in some major ways. I'll be writing a review soon, but until then, let's just say

Cswag12 - 7/21/2012, 7:27 AM
I agree with you on the batman theory,because when I watch it it 50/50 he might be dead or alive, but overall it was a fantastic movie
NerdyGeek - 7/21/2012, 7:27 AM
The script had way to much going on in it. Biggest fault of the film.
Dynamo - 7/21/2012, 7:29 AM
JGL stole the show.
SpideyQuad - 7/21/2012, 7:30 AM
So much comes to mind, but ultimately grif says it best so I'll leave it at that.
Smokey - 7/21/2012, 7:30 AM
Hardy was great as Bane, their first encounter where Bane breaks the Bat is just amazing and painful to watch, and the ending with Alfred was real, all the characters got a little sign that Batman survived... Gordon got the Bat symbol, Fox got the fixed autopilot thingy, and Wayne knew that Alfred took vacations there, so he made sure to be there so he could put Alfreds mind to ease.

Plus I think we should do this with every movie that comes out at different times around the world... a single place where people can discuss the movie without fear.
Fantine - 7/21/2012, 7:31 AM
Juno Temple was also Holly Robinson, which was no suprise. A suprise however, they stayed true to the comic, and made her a lesbian.

Hawknator - 7/21/2012, 7:31 AM
Awesome movie. Yeah kinda funny how Bane gets takin out buy firepower from the Bat bike. What a emotional roller coaster.
RorMachine - 7/21/2012, 7:32 AM
Yeah I think he was alive, I'm just entertaining the possibility that Nolan might have wanted it to be a bit more ambiguous..wouldn't be the first time!
CaptainDC - 7/21/2012, 7:32 AM
THANK YOUR FOR MAKING THIS, really wanted to discuss this. I wonder first if there's a Robin spinoff possibly? And Batman escaped at the end, there's no way that's in his head.
ForceOfLegend - 7/21/2012, 7:33 AM
Amazing movie! Best super hero trilogy so far! I got a chill down my spine when Batman first came back, and when he climbed out of the hole! Bruce was alive, and happy in the end! Amazing movie! 10/10 for the whole trilogy! The theater I saw it in gave it a standing ovation!
patriautism - 7/21/2012, 7:33 AM
Wayne DID survive.. There was NOTHING to suggest that was in Alfred's head. Bruce and Selina had the clean slate, and they escaped together, that is ALL..
djkpat - 7/21/2012, 7:33 AM
No he survived. Otherwise it doesn't explain how the bat flood light was fixed, and the fact that he had the autopilot fixed, and the whole point of him being there at the end was for Alfred. He's very much still the batman, and essentially playing that blake becomes robin.
spidey1994 - 7/21/2012, 7:33 AM
Also, I kinda knew Marion Cotillard was actually Talia, but hell she's perfect for Talia so I was happy and Bane BREAKS Batman!! I was freaking out when that happened! Also, so good to see Scarecrow again.
JDUKE25 - 7/21/2012, 7:34 AM
Loved the movie. The "back-breaking scene" after their first encounter was awesome. Bane was great. JGL was also great in movie. Would love to see what happens with him, if he becomes Batman or takes on a new mantle (Nightwing or Red Robin). I would love either of those.
jessepostal - 7/21/2012, 7:36 AM
I'm still trying to figure out if I liked it or loved it, bane I thought was fantastic same as catwoman. A lot of things about bale were different, acting wise. He sounded like a completely diff person. I know, it's been eight years yadda yadda. The editing was kind of iffy and to me it rolled like a music video. Kind of made it seemed forced and cramed. There was music in a few scenes that didn't seem to be needed or didn't match the feeling of that scene. The action was great. I wish I didn't know about talia because it would have made the pay off better. Some of it was jaw dropping some of it was meh. Idk, I'll have to watch it again or a few times too decide. Loved the ending!!!!
Aboehari - 7/21/2012, 7:36 AM
When he did climb out the hole, was that a comicbook-reference? Cause i didn't had any goosebumps. I did have it with Bane vs Tagget dialogue (do you feel like a boss?) or Bane breaking Batmans back.
MrReese - 7/21/2012, 7:37 AM
Ahh you think the darkness is your ally.You merely adopted the dark.I was born in it.Molded by it.I didn't see the light until I was only a man by then it wasn't nothing 2 me but light.The shadows betray you because they belong 2 me.

Your precious armory. Gratefully accepted.

Ahh yes! I was wondering what would break fast............Your spirit or your body.

Photobucket


EPIC [frick]ING MUCH??? XD XD
Bread - 7/21/2012, 7:37 AM
I dont think he'll become Batman,

People now think batman is dead and that he made the ultimate sacrifice to save the city.

Blake doesnt know he's alive, I don't think he would dare call himself batman

He'll become nightwing
scapegoatjones - 7/21/2012, 7:37 AM
I enjoyed Nolan's version of Bane, but both Blake and Kyle overshadowed him.
Everyone was well-played in this movie. Great conclusion to a trilogy.
astromerc - 7/21/2012, 7:37 AM
Anybody else a bit miffed they did not show the San Diego Comic Con Man of Steel trailer? I really wanted to see that one. The one they showed was meh. Any thoughts? ( I know this is a bit off topic)
lankeymarlon - 7/21/2012, 7:38 AM
I would still argue that Robin isn't in the movie. His name being Robin, is a sort of joke by Nolan, as him and Bale have said over the years they wouldn't do a movie with Robin in it. And they have stuck to their word, Robin(The superhero) isn't in the film. If it was Robin his name would have been Dick Grayson. John(Robin) Blake as I understood it was to become Batman at the end of the film.
Munch - 7/21/2012, 7:38 AM
I personally would have really liked if they called Blake's real name grayson that would have been awesome and I thought the best ending would have been alfred looking up in the restraint in Florence smile and the little nod then cut to credits instead of the panning over to Bruce.
patriautism - 7/21/2012, 7:38 AM
Did anyone else notice that Talia was Banes Teddy Bear..?
brewtownpsych - 7/21/2012, 7:39 AM
there is no doubt nolan left the ending ambiguous. one more reason he is a master filmmaker ... he just enjoys the idea that people will debate it and come to their own conclusions. and we do! (and the fact that the autopilot was fixed merely leaves open the POSSIBILITY that he is alive ... for me i find it compelling that they were in the same cafe that was in alfred's fantasy, suggesting this too was a fantasy)

i understand the robin thing too. you hit the nail on the head. i was expecting her to say "dick grayson" too but then i realized millions of moviegoers aren't going to have any idea who tf that is ...
inky - 7/21/2012, 7:39 AM
shame the bane in this movie is nothing more than a pale small wimpish wanna be of the bane that DC introduced to kill off batman before most of this movies fans were old enough to read comics.
and as for best movie ever that is personal choice.
jessepostal - 7/21/2012, 7:39 AM
Did fox die in the flood? I don't remember seeing him at the faux funeral
R888 - 7/21/2012, 7:40 AM
Bane owned the [frick]ing film, breaking bat back :)
Epic comic moment
Madmex93 - 7/21/2012, 7:42 AM
I like that the kinda left what JGL will be as ambiguous, because he can be Robin, or maybe just Batman.

Also I would go to say this had one of the best endings i've ever scene it was just perfect, the way it was able to tie all the major themes of the trilogy and Bruce's Journey into one nice ending. Also liked Gordon reading the last paragraph from "tales of two cities".

My only complaint with the ending(and the series perhaps) is that it ends Bruce's crusade against crime, which is a fundamental ongoing issues in the comics, his struggle to continue to fight crime and keep the promise he made to his parents. But i guess that can be forgiven because as Nolan said these films aren't like the comics they can't go on forever and need to have a conclusion at on point.
AthleticoPathetico - 7/21/2012, 7:42 AM
The movie rocked!! I think the poor pacing in certain areas have left a lot of people feeling it was the weaker of the three movies. I commented a few weeks ago that I think the title will be an bid to Blake rising to become batman and I honestly think it was what Nolan meant. I hope someone smarter than me can figure out a way of moving forward with this franchise with JGL centre stage but I just can't see it!
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