Kevin Smith On Why He Prefers THE AVENGERS Over TDKR

Comic book writer,actor, director and fanboy; Kevin Smith talks about his love for The Dark Knight Rises and Marvel's The Avengers and why he loves The Avengers a little bit more.

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By Mark Julian - 12/11/2012

A bit of a lengthy piece from Kevin here but I think his sentiments echo how a lot of comic book fans feel about both The Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises.

"'The Dark Knight Rises' I have a weird relationship with – it's like a chemical romance with a toxic ex-girlfriend where I love her to death but there are some things about her that are just fucking wrong. 'The Avengers' I loved so more than I thought I would. I've written for Marvel but I was never an Avengers guy. I'm more DC. But I've become obsessed with Favreau's 'Iron Man' movie because I think it's very nearly a perfect film. So when I saw Favreau wasn't doing it I thought, Well what do I care? The first time I saw it was in Australia and it opened a week before it opened here and we were traveling for the 'Jay and Silent Bob Go Down Under' tour and we had just done a show and we went to a midnight show. And the first time I saw it I could not get past the Loki poke-y stick in the beginning. Because Loki sticks something in somebody's chest and it's like 'WAAMP, you're a bad guy.' What the fuck? Is this the level of discourse we're going to have? But you can't deny that flick."

"By the middle of it I was like, 'The Hulk is amazing.' The next time I watched it I was totally into it. You can't watch that movie and be like 'I object to the Loki poke-y stick' when there's a motherfucker who turns into a green giant. In my mind Marvel science is okay because we were raised on it. As someone who looks for realism in comics, you can say, 'Well, you could get belted by gamma rays and turn into someone else.' But you can't say, 'A stick from outer space that makes you a bad guy is bullshit!' So I got past that and embraced the whole thing. I've now watched 'Avengers' about eight times, twice on a plane back-to-back. It just keeps giving. That's 10,000 across the board! Whedon in the driver's seat, 70-80 years of Marvel, and the charm fucking factor of Robert Downey Jr. It runs like a golden machine. I never imagined that I would love 'Avengers' more than 'Dark Knight Rises.' Not only would I have never imagined that 'Dark Knight' would underperform (based on other mitigating factors of course). But I would have never thought 'Avengers' would make more than 'Dark Knight Rises.' But I never would have thought I would have liked 'Avengers' more than 'Dark Knight Rises' but I really did like 'Avengers' more. And I've watched them an equal amount of times. 'Avengers,' I'm not going to say it's the better movie, but it puts a smile on your face. It's magical cinema."


So, what do you think about what Smith says? He's admitted his preference is DC, which he's predominantly written for but even he loves The Avengers a tad more.



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Marvel's The Avengers or simply The Avengers is a 2012 American superhero film produced by Marvel Studios and distributed by Walt Disney Pictures, based on the Marvel Comics superhero team of the same name. It is the sixth installment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The film is scripted and directed by Joss Whedon and features an ensemble cast that includes Robert Downey, Jr., Chris Evans, Mark Ruffalo, Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson, Jeremy Renner, Tom Hiddleston, Clark Gregg, Cobie Smulders, Stellan Skarsgård and Samuel L. Jackson. In The Avengers, Nick Fury, director of the peacekeeping organization S.H.I.E.L.D., recruits Iron Man, Captain America, the Hulk, and Thor to form a team that must stop Thor's adoptive brother Loki from subjugating Earth.

The Avengers premiered on April 11, 2012, at the El Capitan Theatre in Hollywood, California. The film received positive reviews from most film critics and set or tied numerous box office records, including the biggest opening weekend in North America and the fastest film to gross $1 billion. The Avengers grossed $1.51 billion worldwide, and became the third highest-grossing film of all time. The film was released on Blu-ray Disc and DVD on September 25, 2012. A sequel to be written and directed by Whedon is scheduled for release on May 1, 2015.


Source: Indiewire
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MrReese - 12/9/2012, 7:31 PM
Smith is awesome XD
MrReese - 12/9/2012, 7:31 PM
Bluntman n Chronic FTW!!
SpoonWielder - 12/11/2012, 12:23 AM
Here here Kevin Smith
FightAs0ne - 12/11/2012, 12:25 AM
"'The Dark Knight Rises' I have a weird relationship with – it's like a chemical romance with a toxic ex-girlfriend where I love her to death but there are some things about her that are just [frick]ing wrong."

That is the best absolute way to describe the way I feel about TDKR, without feeling to overtly fanboyish. I agree with what he says.
whoelsebutkevin - 12/11/2012, 12:28 AM
Fair enough, I understand what he saying about Avengers being a "Magical Cinema". Its just a fun thing to watch that calms your appetite for Comic book Movie fun. On top of that it was well acted and directed. That's as far as i'll go with that.

I love Batman.
NostalgicYouth - 12/11/2012, 12:29 AM
He has his opinions and I respect that but I still like TDKR more then the Avengers; but I still have fun with the Avengers.
technodrome518 - 12/11/2012, 12:30 AM
I've watched both movies equal amounts of time, and I fell asleep to TDKR last time I watched it. It's a great movie in all, but some parts just lag for me. Avengers on the other hand keeps my full attention every time. Smith said it the best about Avengers, "It's magical cinema".
technodrome518 - 12/11/2012, 12:31 AM
@NostalgicYouth I love your Matt and Trey picture!
ComicFanMan - 12/11/2012, 12:36 AM
Seriously now you editors are trying to start a war! haha but in all seriousness this debate should be over for the simple reason that professional critics have put this movie in their top 10 list and also it is ahead of avengers in imdb and metacritic. Even though I'm a fan of Kevin smith and jason mewes he is not a professional critic and is known to act whiny when his films first receive a couple of bad reviews. So marvelites just leave it alone because both films are great so stop your whining and b*tching!
Kayo - 12/11/2012, 12:37 AM
right you are Mr. Smith
CPIXLEY - 12/11/2012, 12:38 AM
The Avengers was fun and TDKR was serious. I loved them both! I want to see IM3 and MoS!!!
ShadowOfTheWeb - 12/11/2012, 12:42 AM
Both awesome films, it's a golden era to be a fanboy right now! Kevin smith is one enertaining mofo. Fatman on batman is a great listen
nikgrid - 12/11/2012, 12:45 AM
I noticed he said in reference to the Avengers ..."I'm not going to say it's the better movie, but it puts a smile on your face..." - That's how I feel about the Avenger fine cinema it's not...but people like to pretend it is.
TheSensationalSpiderman - 12/11/2012, 12:46 AM
I loved both films. No film is perfect. They both have flaws. I would say im more of a DC guy because Batman is my favorite charachter of Alltime but i love marvel also. I don't think anyone truly expected the amount of money the avengers made. I agree with Kevin right there. I wonder if Ironman 3 will make the kind of money Avengers made. I know everyone is going to start arguing like crazy soon so please learn to accept other peoples opinions.
LP4 - 12/11/2012, 12:49 AM
Funny. Before both even came out i remember Smith was banking more on TDKR over Avengers.

95 - 12/11/2012, 12:52 AM
My sentiments exactly. His Fatman On Batman podcast are the only works I have experience of Kevin Smith. I have not seen his films.

Back to Rises: look, I have high praise for many aspects of the film. I have no regrets for defending it during the "war" last year. It's an incredible piece of filmmaking (at least on a technical level). However, there are plenty of issues with the story to dismiss. There are mountains of great moments, of symbolism/allusions/parallels, and valleys of "abysmal plot holes".

Marvel's The Avengers has grown on me. I have a new found respect for Joss Whedon. His film does not make promises it cannot keep. The story is structured to the point that every scene tops the scene before it, even till the end. Joss Whedon was able to maintain a steady flow that kept to engaged till past the credits! With that type of adrenaline, it's natural to proclaim the film: "flawless". It's hard to criticize a film (to a microscopic level) when you walk out of the theater happy. The Avengers simply commits less mistakes, whether you consider the plot simple or not.

In conclusion... my Best Buy Steelbook is in the mail.
TheBeard - 12/11/2012, 12:54 AM
He is a smart man. TDKR was a complete let down compared to the second movie. But being realistic, after Heath Ledger nothing was going to match up. Avengers was WAY better.
Happy11 - 12/11/2012, 12:59 AM
He is.always contradicting himself. I watched fatman on batman where he is crying when talking about his favorite scenes in TDKR. But you have to listen to him talk about the failed superman movie Tim Burton Jon Peters its gold.
JDUKE25 - 12/11/2012, 1:02 AM
Avengers was fun the first 2 times, but after that its just not that good. The jokes aren't funny anymore, they're just annoying. Most of the dialogue is garbage. The camera angles is some scenes are a joke. Hulk is awesome, but I just can't get over the crappy CG environment and all of that green screen. It's just so freakin noticeable. I enjoyed X2 more than this. Hoping Avengers 2 is a lot better.

Now don't get all pissy cuz I insulted your favorite movie. I'm criticizing the movie, not you. If you love it, then by all means love the crap out of it.

The Dark Knight Rises wasn't perfect. Talia should have been used better and earlier. and she should've freakin fought someone. I thought it was the third best out of the trilogy, with BB as my favorite.
TheSensationalSpiderman - 12/11/2012, 1:07 AM
I really hope everyone is supporting all the comic films coming out next year. Please give us a Great Superman Movie. The character is an Icon and deserves praise!!!
JDUKE25 - 12/11/2012, 1:08 AM
I also thought the 8-year gap was ridiculous. Should've been 4 years at the most, but 3 years would've been a better time gap.
JasonZumwalt - 12/11/2012, 1:10 AM
Apples and oranges. Both movies are great. Avengers is the ultimate popcorn flick with a ton of heart and TDKR is pop art mirroring our own reality. Both great films.
95 - 12/11/2012, 1:15 AM
@Happy11 I saw that, lol. He really likes the movie, he just acknowledges that there are noticable flaws, you know? Like the Cafe scene, that had a profound impact on him. Otherwise, moments like John Blake's "amazing" detective skills ("when I saw you I knew you were Batman") — he felt extremely "bummed" by that.

@TheDarkKnight720 I agree. There is no reason to complain about post-2012 comic book movies. It's an era of fan input. We have the power and anything (from silly characters to unthinkable team ups) is possible.
ButtHurt - 12/11/2012, 1:21 AM
on "Fatman on Batman" He actually did 2 parts. The first was his "review" which was a good review, he loved the film. The 2nd part was nothing but "problems" he had with the film, which in short....was all of the plot holes that we continue to point out on here. When you hear the "problems" piece, it sounds like he had a lot of problems that RATIONAL people do as well.
NextHero08 - 12/11/2012, 2:07 AM
This is so nice. The Avengers speaks to the kid in me, the fanboy for sure while TDKR is my grown up film, a true masterpiece. Was it a constant adrenaline rush like TDK, no, and I'm glad it wasn't. Besides a tweak or two to Banes voice and changing the semi-climactic back breaking scene to a more dramatic moment, I love the film, this one I CAN watch over and over and not get tired of the scene or dialogue.
didich - 12/11/2012, 2:26 AM
@JDUKE25

Man I'm not attacking, but The Avengers dialogue was not more garbage than Rises'. And the CGI was not crappy, how else do you want to present a fantastical world? How do you think are they gonna handle Man of Steel?

And the part about X2 being better is hilarious.
batfan175 - 12/11/2012, 2:30 AM
well, he just says that he likes one more but does not say what is "wrong" about TDKR in his opinion. Yeah i like happy stories where all ends well for everyone, too. It's just not how it goes in real life.
JerBear - 12/11/2012, 2:48 AM
@batfan175
The Avengers didn't exactly have a happy ending, more of a hopeful one.
Goran - 12/11/2012, 2:50 AM
I never knew he was Silent Bob Ô.Ô
now I can't take him seriously anymore
avengersleagueofjusticeforamerica - 12/11/2012, 2:50 AM
I concur your statement Mr. Smith
Soze - 12/11/2012, 2:54 AM
I honestly think Avengers is the best comic book movie ever. It's an absolute deilght, it's fun, funny, exciting and yes, magical. It reminds me of the golden age of blockbusters of the 80s. TDKR is bloated and has too many niggling plot issues. But it's still a great film.
Kingdork - 12/11/2012, 2:57 AM
@batfan175: No offense but TKDR had a happy ending. And listen to his podcast to hear what he said was "wrong" with the film. He goes on about it at length.
Tevii - 12/11/2012, 3:00 AM
Glad to read this... TDKR wasnt Batman at all. I enjoyed the film but it was not Batman on so many levels. AND there were SO MANY plot holes.
(oddly though I still enjoyed it more than The Dark Knight, which is the most overrated movie ever).

ONE day, MAYBE, WB will give us something Comic book related that actually relates to their characters. They used to in the 80's. Dont know what happened. WB is too corporate now I guess.

Marvel movies are marvel comic books come to life. WB cannot say that yet. (and Im pro DC)
Kyos - 12/11/2012, 3:06 AM
@batfan175
"Yeah i like happy stories where all ends well for everyone, too. It's just not how it goes in real life."

So, which movie are you criticizing and which are you endorsing with this statement - the one in which the heroes end an alien attack on their world, avert a nuclear attack on New York, survive and chill at a Shawarma restaurant or the one in which the heroes end a terrorist attack on their city, avert a nuclear attack on New York, survive and chill in an Italian cafe? ;D
marvel72 - 12/11/2012, 3:09 AM
the avengers the best comic book movie of the year & ever! yes it had its fare share of flaws of it was comic book movie heaven to me & my opinion is the only one that matters.

the dark knight rises average comic book movie it had its moments which were good but it was bad in places as well. it can't touch batman begins or the dark knight in quality department.
marvel72 - 12/11/2012, 3:10 AM
@ kyos

XD hahahahahaha brilliant.
Coldblood6 - 12/11/2012, 3:14 AM
THE AVENGERS was a truly brilliant movie that to this day holds my interest throughout the entire film. I just watched it again last weekend and the magic just does not go away.

tdkr is just boring crap that manages to fool the feeble minded into thinking that it's good via nolan's skill at giving his movies a serious and grandiose tone. When I was watching it for the first time I turned it off after an hour from sheer boredom with the only high point being the hilarity of "I knew you were Batman from your eyes.".

THE AVENGERS crushing defeat of tdkr was a critical high-point in the CBM genre. It represented a victory for genuine comicbook superhero movies over mundane, watered down, pretentious crap, and the genre will follow in its footsteps.

Let us allow the tdk fake CBM's to be dismissed and fade into oblivion and let the MCU usher forth a new golden age of CBSM's.
TheGlove - 12/11/2012, 3:27 AM
He's right. the Avengers is a much better film all round. it delivers! full stop. Dark Knight rises is a terrible film full of plot holes. I'm more of a DC fan and i have no problem with the fact that Whedons movie is a total crowd pleaser.
Happy11 - 12/11/2012, 3:33 AM
I enjoyed the avengers when I first saw it but with more viewings its just ok and without the hulk I don't think I would've enjoyed. Cap is a great cb character but doesn't work on film I honestly don't know what it is but Chris Evans' portrayal annoys me. I liked RDJ in iron man but he tries too hard to be kooky all the time in the avengers come on wtf with the swarma. Love Thor, black widow but hawkeye don't get me started.
TDKR the 8 year gap far too long so Bruce Wayne was only really Batman for a year come on. The John Blake character should've been either dick or Terry. Loved the look and action of BB the heart and views of TDK but TDKR should've had bane break him at the start then jgl takeover for a bit Bruce comeback after a few year. Have Gotham look more like it did in BB stop having Batman runaway all the time. But I did like the fact like Kevin Smith that you see Bruce happy and smiling at the end.
Happy11 - 12/11/2012, 3:37 AM
But saying all that because I love CBM I will watch both again and again
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